PIRACY

[paulcadogan]

If the traffic through the area is so heavy, it should be easier for them to form up and travel in groups under escort.

Though the probability of an individual ship being taken might be small, when it does happen the cost can be phenomenal and I can't help but think that some of the ransom money is flowing to the likes of Al Qaeda and the Taliban - it's certainly not enriching the people of Somalia!

As for on-board security - how difficult would it be to organize that individual ships acquire defence teams from particpating navies once they enter international waters that stay with them until they are clear of the danger zone? This would eliminate the problem of having armed personnel aboard the ships when they are in port.

Kudos to the snipers on the Bainbridge, Captain Phillips and the crew of trhe Maersk Alabama!

[Bgile]

Obviously the shipping companies don't agree with you yet, because they don't seem to be doing those things.

[RF]

With a large volume of shipping under flags of convenience it doesn't really surprise me.

No this is a job for Q-Ship or hilfskreuzer. Perhaps the German Navy can help out???

[Bgile]

With a large volume of shipping under flags of convenience it doesn't really surprise me.

No this is a job for Q-Ship or hilfskreuzer. Perhaps the German Navy can help out???

What percentage of ships are you going to make Q-ships? How many of these are you going to build? What size and what cost? What are the odds of a little five man pirate boat attacking one, and what impact would it have on the other pirates, if it's a one in a thousand chance of encountering one? Seems like overkill to me, unless your Q-ship is just a normal merchant with a few mercenaries concealed aboard.

[lwd]

Easier to just put an AT squad on a bunch of the merchants. A dozen soldiers with military weapons and a few ATGM's would be more than enough to take out the pirate boats.

[Bgile]

I think I would mount a .50mg pintle on the fantail of any ship paying for protection. The ship meets a mercenary support boat prior to entering the danger area and takes aboard five or so mercenaries. They bring the .50 mg + ammo, and lookout equipment including night vision devices.

A short burst in their general direction would probably discourage the pirates we are dealing with here.

When the ship leaves the area of danger, the mercenaries take the MG and disembark to another support ship.

[BlackBirdZGTR]

If the IJN were still around how would they deal with the piracy problems in Somalia?

[RF]

Invade the country and flatten it.

If we go back to the 1930's no problem as Somalia is controlled by Fascist Italy.....

[Karl Heidenreich]

RF:

Invade the country and flatten it.

Indeed that what we can expect to read in History Books about responsible and, let´s say "professional", superpowers correcting the problem: Egypt, Macedonia, Sparta, Rome (over any body else, Rome), the British Empire, etc. etc. etc. And because is the right and proper thing to do then we have our modern day "democratic" and "social humanitarian" superpowers neglecting to do what must be done. Nowaday powers (and THE superpower, which is by name only) do what Homer Simpson likes to do when he have a big problem: sit and expect that, somehow, the problem fix itself...

[Bgile]

RF:

Invade the country and flatten it.

Indeed that what we can expect to read in History Books about responsible and, let´s say "professional", superpowers correcting the problem: Egypt, Macedonia, Sparta, Rome (over any body else, Rome), the British Empire, etc. etc. etc. And because is the right and proper thing to do then we have our modern day "democratic" and "social humanitarian" superpowers neglecting to do what must be done. Nowaday powers (and THE superpower, which is by name only) do what Homer Simpson likes to do when he have a big problem: sit and expect that, somehow, the problem fix itself...

Ah, so now we hold up the Imperial Japanese Army as a shining example of what a world power should do. Nice.

[Karl Heidenreich]

Sorry,

lately I got so mo much work that it´s dificult to follow things...

Rome, as the great example of how an Empire must function never, ever, bother itself with a double talk or moral chit chat: freedom, rights, representation, politics was reserved to it´s citizens, specially the privileged citizens. All other peoples or nations were not even considered so Rome was free to conduct it´s "international" affairs as her best interests dictates. So Anthioc III, the Seleucids, the Macedonians or, mainly, Carthage find out: cities flattened, total extermination of any threat to Rome. Do Rome justified this with moral standing? Nope, they didn´t even bother: the total war justification came from practical approach. As did Genghis Khan and so many others.

The problem with US (as was superbly shown in the movie "Apocalypse Now" with Colonel´s Kurtz final monologue about the horror which is an obvious contribution from John Millius) is that they try to wage war and justitfy it morally. At the beginning there was no need of that, not even during the Civil War when Sherman conducted irrestricted total warfare and decided it was a pretty sight to burn Atlanta or Savannah or anything in his path (much a la Genghis Khan) or with Custer wiping out defenseless villages. The problem came with the liberals during XX Century: Wilson or FDR and the "need" to justify what was necessary. It seems that with Hitler or the Japanese there was no need to work a lot on that. But with the commies there was alway a resistance.

The US needs to be a superpower and act like one, on one hand, and wants to be perceived as a do-good, democratic, moral superior force in the world. The result of such ambiguity is plain evident, not only Pirates in the Somalian coast but:

Castro´s Cuba. Never invaded as it should might happened in the early sixties or after the fall of USSR.
North Korea. What´s the problem with wiping that country out? International opinion or moral issues? I think both, so the superpower is not so because it cares of a moral issue that sooner or later will achieve only a more serious disaster.
Gulf War of the 91. Just look at the newspapers, please
Iran. What the hell are people waiting? To find out that one day Tel Aviv doesn´t exists? Or the base at Diego Garcia?
Tora Bora? I never understood why, in God´s name, when Obama, sorry, Osama, was trapped there the US didn´t blew the whole region with a nuclear weapon and save the world the uncertainity and problems were are facing now.
Kicking the UN out of New York. Why not? The UN are just a bunch of lazy vermin that use US money and US soil to criticize the US. Let them put the UN HQ in Venezuela or Teheran for that effect and sell the UN building for something better: the Krusty the Clown fan club.

Is what I say moral? I think not. But is honest? I think it is because if a country is a superpower it can save to itself and to others the moral arguments and leave them to college boards and not in practical stances. Look at North Korea today. Is something going to happen to them for violating the treaties and the US help? Nope. Just talk but North Korea deserves what McArthur wanted since 1951.

The pirates... yes. Just send the US Navy which is underemployed these days (and over budgeted) and erase them from the face of the Earth. Like Crassus did with Spartacus: crucify the survivors along Via Apia as an example. After that I would like to see Chavez making another anti US speach...

[Bgile]

And if you happened to be living downwind of one of these places the US wants to nuke ... well, that's just too bad for you and your family, right?

All those places you hold up as ideal were dictatorships whose leader could do more or less what he wanted. The US has laws and attempts to live by them. There is a movement here to prosecute Bush, Cheney, Rove, and others for war crimes. Obama doesn't want to do it because he thinks it is too disruptive to getting business done and the precedent it would set. There is a committee looking into it and it may happen anyway if the proof is there that they broke laws.

I am in favor of punitive expeditions. I think it might be justified to attack places in Somalia which support piracy. We could make it unprofitable.

[Karl Heidenreich]

Bgile,

Please: I´m not saying those are MY ideal dictatorships. What I´m saying is that in order to work on international affairs (i.e. conflicts) in observance of a moral stance is a waste of time as Machiavellu or Sun Tzu have stated. You are losing the point, which I have make pretty obvious many times, that I´m a adherent of the US. But I´m also reluctant to accept the inconsistencies in the US policies. If the US is an Empire (which it is by fact) then it must behave like one and accept the responsability and the means to achieve that responsability, as Rome or the Khan did. Any other approach will go against the best interests of the US.

Look at what´s happening with North Korea. Bluff or not it is time for they not to exist more. Iran? The same. If radiocativity is an issue there are other mass destruction weapons or tactics.

The pirates are a joke, an example waiting to be achieved. US power would wipe them in seconds.

Just as a summay: I want my son and daughter to live in a western democratic country, not an islamic barbarian land or a commie infected nation. And if US does not move fast enough, now, the chances of getting the latter are bigger.

Best regards,

Karl

[Bgile]

If the USA is an empire I want it to stop being one. What makes the USA an empire? What countries have we subjugated for profit? Where is my slave? I want a slave. (just kidding, of course. I do hire a guy to do my lawn.)

Be careful of you answer, because it could imply that almost every country in the world is an empire, which would make the term meaningless.

[Bgile]

I don't believe there were any restrictions placed on the type of weapons used on the Tora Bora cave complex, short of nuclear weapons. For example, I think fuel air explosives were used. As far as I know, they were wrecked to the extent that it would take a long and visible effort to make them useful again. Bin Laden seems to have gotten away, but Tora Bora is history as far as current use is concerned. Now they live in the areas of Pakistan not controlled by the Pakistani Government.