Royal Navy today.... and forever!

The warships of today's navies, current naval events, ships in the news, etc.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:28 pm

In other threads the issue of the RN cames once and again. The oldest contemporary navy, the one that has faced the greatest menaces in History, many times alone has saved our western civilization from:

1. Spanish Inquisition
2. French barbarism
3. Napoleon (he wasn´t french)
4. Colonial threats
5. Kaiser Willy
6. Adolf Hitler
7. Argentinian military Junta
8. Cold War
9. War on Terror

I have never think that it´s existence is unjustified or that it´s purpose is to give a sort of a job to the royal family members. It´s gradual weakness process is not inherent of the institution itself but that of narrow minded politicians like Ramsey McDonnald and nowaday Labor party officials that tend to see more important to strike out the Holocaust fron History Books in order not to be offensive to muslims crowding the low life neighborhoods of Rosyth than to maintain a necesary military presence in the emperil seas of the world.

In 1960 the Royal Navy had 202 ships, including 6 aircraft carriers plus 3 light carriers to a total in 1990 of 160 ships (end of Cold War) to just 85 now. The vital submarine force has shrinked from 43 SSN, SSBN, SS and SSK in 1970 to 12 nowadays.

From wikipedia we obtain this (not my favorite source because as an internet one is a lesser one compared to specialized text books, but it will suffice):

"This is a list of active Royal Navy ships, complete and correct as of 23 July 2009.

In total there are 88 commissioned ships in the navy, including 3 which are permanently stationed, plus one submarine which has been delivered to the navy but not formally commissioned yet. 24 of the commissioned vessels are major fleet escorts (7 guided missile destroyers and 17 frigates) and 12 are nuclear powered submarines (4 ballistic missile submarines and 8 attack submarines). In addition the Navy possesses 2 aircraft carriers, 1 helicopter carrier, and 2 landing platform docks. A third aircraft carrier is in reserve.

The ships of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service are not included in this list or above figures.

Invincible-class aircraft carriers (2)
HMS Ark Royal (R07) - Flagship of the active fleet
HMS Illustrious (R06)
In Reserve
HMS Invincible (R05)

Type 45 destroyer (1)
HMS Daring (D32)

Type 42 destroyers (6)

HMS Nottingham (D91) - Extended readiness
HMS Liverpool (D92)
HMS Manchester (D95)
HMS Gloucester (D96)
HMS Edinburgh (D97)
HMS York (D98)

Type 23 frigates (13)
HMS Argyll (F231)
HMS Lancaster (F229)
HMS Iron Duke (F234)
HMS Monmouth (F235)
HMS Montrose (F236)
HMS Westminster (F237)
HMS Northumberland (F238)
HMS Richmond (F239)
HMS Somerset (F82)
HMS Sutherland (F81)
HMS Kent (F78)
HMS Portland (F79)
HMS St Albans (F83)

Type 22 frigates (4)
HMS Cornwall (F99)
HMS Cumberland (F85)
HMS Campbeltown (F86)
HMS Chatham (F87)

Amphibious assault ship (LPH) (1)
HMS Ocean (L12)

Albion-class landing platform docks (2)
HMS Albion (L14)
HMS Bulwark (L15)

Vanguard-class submarines (SSBNs) (4)
HMS Vanguard (S28)
HMS Victorious (S29)
HMS Vigilant (S30)
HMS Vengeance (S31)

Astute-class submarine (SSNs) (1)
HMS Astute (S119) - On sea trials; expected to be commissioned in the spring of 2010.[1]

Trafalgar-class submarines (SSNs) (7)
HMS Trafalgar (S107)
HMS Turbulent (S87)
HMS Tireless (S88)
HMS Torbay (S90)
HMS Trenchant (S91)
HMS Talent (S92)
HMS Triumph (S93)

Swiftsure-class submarines (SSNs) (1)
HMS Sceptre (S104)

Sandown-class mine countermeasures vessels (8)
HMS Walney (M104)
HMS Penzance (M106)
HMS Pembroke (M107)
HMS Grimsby (M108)
HMS Bangor (M109)
HMS Ramsey (M110)
HMS Blyth (M111)
HMS Shoreham (M112)

Hunt-class mine countermeasures vessels (8)
HMS Ledbury (M30)
HMS Cattistock (M31)
HMS Brocklesby (M33)
HMS Middleton (M34)
HMS Chiddingfold (M37)
HMS Atherstone (M38)
HMS Hurworth (M39)
HMS Quorn (M41)

Antarctic patrol ship (1)
HMS Endurance (A171)

River-class patrol vessels (4)
HMS Mersey (P283)
HMS Severn (P282)
HMS Tyne (P281)
HMS Clyde (P257) (modified River class)

Archer or P2000-class fast patrol boats (14)
HMS Archer (P264)
HMS Biter (P270)
HMS Smiter (P272)
HMS Blazer (P279)
HMS Puncher (P291)
HMS Ranger (P293)
HMS Trumpeter (P294)
HMS Express (P163)
HMS Example (P165)
HMS Explorer (P164)
HMS Exploit (P167)
HMS Tracker (P274)
HMS Raider (P275)

Scimitar-class fast patrol boats (Gibraltar Squadron) (2)
HMS Scimitar (P284)
HMS Sabre (P285)

Archer or P2000-class fast patrol boats (Royal Navy Cyprus Squadron) (2)
HMS Pursuer (P273)
HMS Dasher (P280)

Ocean survey vessel (1)
HMS Scott (H131)

Coastal survey vessels (2)
HMS Roebuck (H130)
HMSML Gleaner (H86)

Echo-class multi-purpose survey vessels (2)
HMS Echo (H87)
HMS Enterprise (H88)

Other ships in commission
HMS Bristol (D23) - Type 82 destroyer - now used as a training ship, permanently docked in Portsmouth Harbour
HMS Caroline - C class cruiser - now used as a shore establishment, permanently docked in Belfast
HMS Victory - First-rate ship of the line - the flagship of the Second Sea Lord, permanently docked in Portsmouth Naval Base"


For this last one, few (I think just the British and the Japanese) could still name their most succesfull flagship that saw action in a desperate battle.

Now, the new heavy aircraft carriers are a need, not a luxury nowadays. Armed with the new F 35 (instead of the aging Harriers) these ships are vital for power projection against the new threats (Russia, China, Iran and french armed Brazil and Venezuela) in times where the US is not likely to handle more things than they have now (with little success, also). Maybe the world depend more in an Perfid Albion set of mind now than in a "peace instrument".

I do suspect that the strategic role of the Royal Navy is far from over, still some rage to unleash at the seas.

Best regards,

Karl
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby Legend » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:56 am

I am no professional on the current RN... so I have to bring up the question. Does the Royal Navy have it's ships efficient enough at their tasks that they may assist other forces against modern threats? Littoral piracy, Ground Support, Search and Rescue...
AND THE SEA SHALL GRANT EACH MAN NEW HOPE, AS SLEEP BRINGS DREAMS.

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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:11 am

Good questions.

I think that maybe that´s why they are building the new aircraft carriers (not CVs), in order to upgrade their power projection capacity. Now: with just 88 vessels I do not know how far they can go.
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby Legend » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:46 am

You know... I miss the idealogy of one class... the Perry's. They were designed to be rugged and CHEAP! Now theyre all expensive and therefore limited in what our governments want to send them into...
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby RF » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:52 am

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Good questions.

I think that maybe that´s why they are building the new aircraft carriers (not CVs), in order to upgrade their power projection capacity. Now: with just 88 vessels I do not know how far they can go.


The role is more limited now because there is no worldwide empire to police, moreover Britain is no longer the world's first naval power. With different priorities there is no longer a need for a superpower sized navy, but as a maritime nation a large powerful navy is needed. The current plans have it about right, but I would prefer a slightly larger force of submarines and strike carriers.

The main danger now is that the RN will become part of an EU navy, no longer under true British control.
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:54 am

The main danger now is that the RN will become part of an EU navy, no longer under true British control.


That has to be avoided at all costs. A RN working alongside or as an ally, as per example, of the french is a huge blunder (Villeneuve again?). The virtue of the British has always been NOT to be a part of continental europe and their evil tendencies. If such a union happens, at least the British must maintain control of their own Navy.

Best regards,
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby yellowtail3 » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:23 pm

I'm ready to learn:
Karl Heidenreich wrote:In other threads the issue of the RN cames once and again. The oldest contemporary navy, the one that has faced the greatest menaces in History, many times alone has saved our western civilization from:
...
4. Colonial threats

what, saving England from brown peoples they'd 'colonized'?

9. War on Terror

Uh-huh.
I do suspect that the strategic role of the Royal Navy is far from over, still some rage to unleash at the seas.

please, no terror on the seas. We don't need it. Thank goodness they can't afford it...

heh heh heh
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby Legend » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:43 am

You call Iran and other hostile middle eastern countries with legitemate missile boats no naval threat? Their missiles may be outdated Russian filth, but they are still lethal enough to take out any ship without CIWS. As an American with friends and family over there you should have enough respect for what they are dealing with... along with reports about Somalian Pirates, recovered mines, and other LEGITEMATE threats.
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby yellowtail3 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:13 am

Legend wrote:You call Iran and other hostile middle eastern countries with legitemate missile boats no naval threat?

they're a threat to ships approaching their shore. Unlike the USN, they are no threat to countries outside their neighborhood. They're entitled to navies too, aren't they? Esp. navies, designed to defend their own waters?
Legend wrote:Their missiles may be outdated Russian filth, but they are still lethal enough to take out any ship without CIWS.

or those with it. Shit happens, gear fails, switchology is all wrong, EW operator might be dicking instead of eyeing that SLQ32.
Legend wrote:As an American with friends and family over there you should have enough respect for what they are dealing with... along with reports about Somalian Pirates, recovered mines, and other LEGITEMATE threats.

You're saying I should have... respect? What does that mean? And what the heck is the diff between a 'LEGITEMATE' threat, and.... one that is not?
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby RF » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:16 pm

yellowtail3 wrote:what, saving England from brown peoples they'd 'colonized'?



The ''colonised'' now have their own countries. And their problems, drugs and terrorists, not to mention religous fruitcakes, come over to the Old World. So a naval protection force is needed.
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby RF » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:20 pm

yellowtail3 wrote:please, no terror on the seas. We don't need it. Thank goodness they can't afford it...

heh heh heh


Tell that to the people who have been held hostage by the so called Somali pirates and you might get something more robust than a two fingered salute.
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby RF » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:24 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:
The main danger now is that the RN will become part of an EU navy, no longer under true British control.


That has to be avoided at all costs. A RN working alongside or as an ally, as per example, of the french is a huge blunder (Villeneuve again?). The virtue of the British has always been NOT to be a part of continental europe and their evil tendencies. If such a union happens, at least the British must maintain control of their own Navy.

Best regards,


I wouldn't hold your breath Karl, it is already starting to happen, courtesy of the Treaty of Lisbon, now that Eire has been ''persauded'' to vote for it. Remeber that our British politicians loyalty is to the EU because it is the master gravy train......
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby yellowtail3 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:40 pm

RF wrote:Tell that to the people who have been held hostage by the so called Somali pirates and you might get something more robust than a two fingered salute.

Yeah... I would resent some pirates trying to board my ship. Seems to me - and I'm not current or over there - that the Somali pirates could be dealt with rather handily, just by having some arms on target ships. A couple of mounted .50s, and an arms locker onboard should go a good ways to discouraging those guys. But then there are those port rules.

I'm sympathetic toward the 'pirates' who've been royally screwed by westerners. My sympathy, of course, would be blunted if they pointed their AKs at me... .
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby RF » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:19 pm

Precisely. Forces such as the RN and the USN should be for our protection. Not to dominate parts of the globe which pose no threat to Allied interests.
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Re: Royal Navy today.... and forever!

Postby Gary » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:13 pm

Yeah... I would resent some pirates trying to board my ship. Seems to me - and I'm not current or over there - that the Somali pirates could be dealt with rather handily, just by having some arms on target ships. A couple of mounted .50s, and an arms locker onboard should go a good ways to discouraging those guys. But then there are those port rules.

Trouble is it would be a drain on resources to put teams of marines aboard every single ship in those waters and you cant give arms to ordinary merchant sailors as thats just asking for trouble
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