Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

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RF
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby RF » Wed May 19, 2010 6:32 pm

AngloSaxonVangaurd wrote:
I hope a conflict happens soon so this Tory government realy sees the true importance of the Royal Navy and re-build it back up to strength.


In the immortal words of John McEnroe you cannot be serious!1

No British Government of any complexion, or indeed any British political party, not even the far right, has ever advocated that Britain should start a war as an aggressor nation. The whole point of British Foreign and Defence policy has always been to avoid war by deterrence, and only go to war where British and Allied interests are attacked. That is rightly the policy of all countries and alliances, including the EU.

I for one certainly do not want a conflict with Argentina. Britain has recently been involved in too many conflicts, yet our armed forces are still cut down in size to save money.

The Conservative Party in Britain no longer sees Britain as a self governing country. Our armed forces role is to be parcelled out under NATO or future EU or UN command, and on the basis of the analysis in your above posts the RN will only be a small force. To anybody who voted for the Tories for strong British armed forces, or to regain sovereignty from the EU, I would say you were sold a dummy and voted for the WRONG party. One Tony Blair was bad enough, now we have another, with his ''big society'' Blairite fantasy. The RN can hope for ''Cool Britannia'' at best.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby RF » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:01 am

Those with access to the Channel 4 television channel in Britain may be interested to see the ITN prepared documentary of HMS Daring, the first of six new type 45 RN destroyers. One aspect alluded to in the programme was its projected capabilities for a Falklands type operation.
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby dougieo » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:42 pm

RF wrote:Those with access to the Channel 4 television channel in Britain may be interested to see the ITN prepared documentary of HMS Daring, the first of six new type 45 RN destroyers. One aspect alluded to in the programme was its projected capabilities for a Falklands type operation.


I watched this, they made a point of saying that things would have been different for the fleet with one of these ships around.

You could see it/then tied up when you go to Breahead shopping centre

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RF
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby RF » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:23 am

The thing is, it is easy to say that one of these Type 45 destroyers would have made a crucial difference in 1982, specifically avoiding the losses the RN suffered. Until this type of ship is pitched into a war there still remains uncertainty that it can live up to promise.

Perhaps a greater test might have been in 1982 with just one of these ships - serving in the Argentine Navy.
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby Bgile » Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:03 pm

RF wrote:The thing is, it is easy to say that one of these Type 45 destroyers would have made a crucial difference in 1982, specifically avoiding the losses the RN suffered. Until this type of ship is pitched into a war there still remains uncertainty that it can live up to promise.

Perhaps a greater test might have been in 1982 with just one of these ships - serving in the Argentine Navy.


The T45 is designed to defend a carrier from air attack. I doubt it would have been terribly useful to the Argentine Navy.

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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby RF » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:34 pm

The T45 would have other applications than simply the defence of a carrier, of which Argentina had one anyway.
Its radars and missile interception systems could have been used against the RN in support of a far more active surface naval role by Argentine ships to permit more effective support of its forces otherwise cut off in the Falklands by the British ''exclusion zone.''

One thing I did notice in the documentary was the total ommission of any reference to anti-submarine warfare. I don't believe that such a ship would not be equipped for sub hunting.
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby Bgile » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:59 pm

RF wrote:The T45 would have other applications than simply the defence of a carrier, of which Argentina had one anyway.
Its radars and missile interception systems could have been used against the RN in support of a far more active surface naval role by Argentine ships to permit more effective support of its forces otherwise cut off in the Falklands by the British ''exclusion zone.''

One thing I did notice in the documentary was the total ommission of any reference to anti-submarine warfare. I don't believe that such a ship would not be equipped for sub hunting.


My understanding is it does not have a significant ASW capability.

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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby RF » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:24 am

If that is the case I would find it surprising as the defence of a fleet carrier would presumably include sub attack as one of the possible threats, not least to the destroyer itself even though it is highly maneouvreable....
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby Bgile » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:11 pm

RF wrote:If that is the case I would find it surprising as the defence of a fleet carrier would presumably include sub attack as one of the possible threats, not least to the destroyer itself even though it is highly maneouvreable....


It has equipment to evade torpedoes and it has sonar. It also has a helicopter. It doesn't have a towed sonar array and the sonar it has was referred to in one article I found as "inexpensive". Who knows for sure ... I don't. It doesn't have any missiles other than AA missiles. It's clear that it's primarily an AAW ship. It has growth potential and it may be that some of these things will be added later.

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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby RF » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:10 am

Of course with the Official Secrets Act we are only given the PR spin that the MOD wants us to have. I suspect there is more to the Type 45 than we are being told, and the intelligence services of other countries, both friendly and hostile, will realise that.
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby Bgile » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:17 pm

RF wrote:Of course with the Official Secrets Act we are only given the PR spin that the MOD wants us to have. I suspect there is more to the Type 45 than we are being told, and the intelligence services of other countries, both friendly and hostile, will realise that.


From the British forum on navweaps:

France and Italy's Horizon Frigates are receiving the Thales UMS 4110 CL sonar. The MoD wanted this set for Type-45's but were ruled out by Labour on costs grounds.

As a result the Type-45's are receiving the vastly less capable EDO MFS-7000 sonar....

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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby RF » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:13 am

This cost cutting doesn't surprise me at all. We shall see whether the new government will reverse that decision, but I won't hold my breath.
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:33 am

The Organization of American States (OEA in Spanish) gave yesterday a "moral support" to Argentina for it's claims against the British but... in a peacefull manner. Obviously this "peacefull" is a political correct rethoric that serves two purposes:

1. It is clear for the leftist or "sissy keen" goverments of Latin America that with this declatarion they are figthing, bravely, against the imperialist forces of Great Britain.
2. It is also clear that, by meaning peacefull, then they (the OEA members) are not binded to Argentina if, by some chance, something violent happens.

Ergo: Lula, Chavez, Morales, Correa and Ortega could shout "Venceremos!" whilst are risking 0 and leaving the bulk of the problem to Argentina.

Good fellows for the Kitchner couple.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby RF » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:57 am

Political posturing that doesn't amount to anything in reality. It doesn't stop any of them from having normal diplomatic and trading relations with Britain, as you say it costs them nothing.
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Re: Royal Navy capable of another Falklands?

Postby IronDuke » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:43 pm

The fact is that the RN probably could not, at the moment, fight another Falkland's War under the circumstances of 1982 (ie, Argentina holding the Falkland Islands) for the simple reason that the premature retirement of the Sea Harrier has left the RN with no Air Defence fighter, since the Ground Attack GR Harriers have little air defence capability, lacking, as they do the right radar.

This only illustrates just how vital the new QE Class Carriers -with capable air groups- are to British defence policy. Once Britain has even the first of those two Carriers in Commission, Agentina, or any other potential enemy. would be wise to think more than twice...
Ted
"It only takes two or three years to build a ship but three hundred to build a tradition" Admiral Cunningham RN


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