Titles of nobility in Germany

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marcelo_malara
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Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by marcelo_malara » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:52 pm

Hi guys. Does anybody know if they were abolished by Hitler?

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by lwd » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:09 pm

Well according to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks
In Austria, nobility titles may no longer be used since 1918.[5]

In Germany, the constitution of the Weimar Republic in 1919 abolished nobility and all nobility titles.
But according to:
http://wiki-en.genealogy.net/German_Nobility
Since 1919, according to the German republican government, the nobility no longer exists as a legal entity. Nevertheless, the titles and noble designations of the nobility have not been abolished, as they have in Austria, and may still be carried. Legally they are now merely parts of the family name and in theory convey no status.
Looks like Hitler did not play a role either way.

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by Kyler » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:39 pm

like lwd said, I believe that titles of nobility no longer exist in use, but there are many families in Germany that still incorporate "Von" in their names.
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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by marcelo_malara » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:08 pm

Thanks guys. The Baron was called so aboard BS?

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by lwd » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:07 pm

I strongly suspect that on some occasions he was. I have no idea how often. It probably was somewhat dependent on the individual and somewhat in the feelings of the captain/admiral toward such designations. This is however guess work on my part. Given the nature of the internet if I'm way off base we are likely to hear about it in short order.

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by marcelo_malara » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:10 pm

Thanks again.

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by tommy303 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:15 pm

According to the International Commission on Nobility and Royalty:
It is often said that nobility was abolished in Germany after World War I. That is not the true. It is simply a misinterpretation of article 109 of the former German Weimar Constitution. Translated properly this article of the constitution reads as follows, ". . . all advantages and disadvantages by social class and by birth are abolished. Usage of styles and titles are prohibited. Noble titles become part of the name. Ennobling a person is no longer allowed anymore. . . ." This means that the usage of all princely, royal and imperial warranties, grants etc. were not allowed any longer. It was forbidden.

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by RF » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:01 pm

I think this is to do with the abolition or abdication of the monarchies in 1918 rather thasn of actual social status. Hitler only had a republican interest in the matter - he was Fuhrer, he didn't want the Hohenzollerns or the Hapsburgs back, he had enough having to stomach the king of Italy!
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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:17 pm

Nowadays the "noble" offsprings of the German aristrocacies are part of the decadent "jet set", you saw them in magazines that use to publish the photos of scandals, Harry using swastikas and Paris Hilton getting out of her Lamborghini in mini skirt.

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by tommy303 » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:22 am

Karl does have a good point. There are a lot of jet setters from the old nobility that do their class little credit. It is interesting to note, that in WW2, according to a US Army Staff College article, German Army officers of the old nobility had a higher killed in action rate than officers from common back grounds. As a rule, German officers suffered extraordinarly high casualties due to the custom that with greater privileges because of rank came greater responsibility to lead by example; the old nobility serving in the Army took it even further and paid a high price in blood.

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by RF » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:21 pm

And leading by example mean't placing themselves in exposed positions, whereas other countries counterparts place themselves under some degree of cover.
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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by Retro » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:48 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Nowadays the "noble" offsprings of the German aristrocacies are part of the decadent "jet set", you saw them in magazines that use to publish the photos of scandals, Harry using swastikas and Paris Hilton getting out of her Lamborghini in mini skirt.
That would wrong the german nobility.

As Tommy already perfectly pointed it out: With the end of the german monarchy in 1919, the country became fully parliamentary. The last remaining advantages by class were abolished such as, that important minister positions were given to the nobility or that only those who are part of the nobility could become officers. Actually commoners were even before WW1 allowed to become officers but mostly only low ranks and even these only in exeptional cases while this movement increased during WW1 for obvious reasons to meet the demand. The most important part behind that "abolition of the nobility" was to take the right from the kaiser to rule the country. Moreover the titles indeed were abolished and instead became an additional part of the family name. Yet those families of nobility of course remained and also kept their traditions, wealth and estates which still made them an elite part of german society. Since it was a common tradition for the german nobility - especially for prussians - to take a career in the military and live an unpolitical life. This had not changed much after 1919 and those who were later to be generals rarely had a chance to do something else as they usually, were already chosen as kids for this career and were sent to military academies at a young age. After the fall of the german monarchy, the nobility was very conservative and some interested in restoring the old conditions. After all, Hitler and the Nobility were no natural allies.

Regarding the german nobility of nowadays: You rarely take notice of them in boulevard magazines as they prefer to keep with their kind and don't want to attract negative attention. While the lower nobility has often only kept the "title" and lives a very common life nowadays, the high nobility has still usually very strict rules. Unfortunately, there are always exemptions and since it is "in" for german chavs and the lower class to act like a wannabe, those rare but unpleasant examples attract attention or even "sell" their titles to dubious people that offer enough money and then behave like the worst chav you can imagine.

To me it appears that in england, class still has a lot of publicity since their traditions are a part of society - even though they also tend to keep under themselves. It's just more public as it is in germany.

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Re: Titles of nobility in Germany

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:21 am

Remember that long periods of peace and comfortable democracy tend to pervert society which use to became decadent. As in all things character is the offspring of courage and sacrifice not timidity and well being.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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