Japan's motivations for empire and its justification

[Byron Angel]

RF wrote - "When that little gain was confirmed in the WW1 Peace Treaties, the toys were thrown out of the pram. The other world powers asserted their far eastern interests, where the Japanese began to feel they should be dominant. An inferiority complex developed as Britain refused to continue with the Treaty of London and Japanese power was contained with naval limitations."

..... What this in essence says is that Japan desperately wanted to join the "big leagues", but had the door slammed in its face by the major powers. That might have suited the interests of the major powers, but they were being rather unrealistic if they expected an ambitious nation like Japan to sit obediently in the corner to which they tried to send it. Actions have consequences, even for the "great powers".

B

[RF]

No, what it says in essence was that Japan was already part of the ''big league'' and getting too big for its boots. As I said, the Washington Treaties gave Japan the world's third largest navy, bigger than the French or Italians. Japan wasn't being excluded from being a member of the club, it was being prevented from being top dog in the club. Compare that with the likes of Brazil, which like Japan declared war on Germany, but unlike Japan wasn't included in the post WW1 Peace Conferences. Did the Brazilian military take umbrage and acquire a desire to conquer the whole of South America?

Like a lot of political minorities and causes, the desire for ''equality'' is in fact a desire for ''superiority'' only that is hidden beneath the spin.

[Byron Angel]

No, what it says in essence was that Japan was already part of the ''big league'' and getting too big for its boots. As I said, the Washington Treaties gave Japan the world's third largest navy, bigger than the French or Italians. Japan wasn't being excluded from being a member of the club, it was being prevented from being top dog in the club. Compare that with the likes of Brazil, which like Japan declared war on Germany, but unlike Japan wasn't included in the post WW1 Peace Conferences. Did the Brazilian military take umbrage and acquire a desire to conquer the whole of South America?

Like a lot of political minorities and causes, the desire for ''equality'' is in fact a desire for ''superiority'' only that is hidden beneath the spin.

..... I fail to see your argument here. Japan's ambition was not to have the world's third largest navy; it was to become an industrial and economic empire of the first order. Japan's colonial holdings before 1930, in terms of size and economic value, were a pittance compared even to those of Belgium and Holland, even Portugal and Spain. Great Britain and France were in another galaxy altogether.

BTW -
I learned why Japan was so anxious to become involved against Germany in WW1. Look into Japan's treatment by France, Russia, and Germany after the conclusion of the 1st Sino-Japanese War.

Also look into Japan's the refusal of the great powers to accept Japan's motion for inclusion of a racial equality clause in the charter of the Legue of Nations.


B

[RF]

..... I fail to see your argument here. Japan's ambition was not to have the world's third largest navy; it was to become an industrial and economic empire of the first order. Japan's colonial holdings before 1930, in terms of size and economic value, were a pittance compared even to those of Belgium and Holland, even Portugal and Spain. Great Britain and France were in another galaxy altogether.

In other words, a top dog. But Japan missed out by starting too late.

I might add that looking at Taiwan and South Korea today that there was clearly an opportunity for economic development there. But Japanese goals were purely exploitative, these colonies were not allowed to realise any potential. Had the British, Americans, Dutch or Portuguese ruled in these territories they would all have got far more out of them.

[RF]

BTW -
I learned why Japan was so anxious to become involved against Germany in WW1. Look into Japan's treatment by France, Russia, and Germany after the conclusion of the 1st Sino-Japanese War.

But still an opportunist intervention, to seize some island groups and to provide the foot soldiers for taking Tsingtao. An intervention with little economic gain.

[RF]

Also look into Japan's the refusal of the great powers to accept Japan's motion for inclusion of a racial equality clause in the charter of the Legue of Nations.
B

So the Japanese responded to it by becoming far more vicously racist than any of the leading lights in the League of Nations.