The German Dreadnought Kaiserin

From the birth of the Dreadnought to the period immediately after the end of World War I.
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Gary
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Re: The German Dreadnought Kaiserin

Postby Gary » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:28 pm

His own grandmother Queen Victoria despised him. That ought to tell you something right there

It was his MOTHER (princess Victoria) that despised him
Queen Victoria actually liked her Grandson.
God created the world in 6 days.........and on the 7th day he built the Scharnhorst

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RF
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Re: The German Dreadnought Kaiserin

Postby RF » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:06 pm

The African colonies were pushed for by the German Colonial League, Bismarck himself wasn't the prime mover but accepted the push for colonies on the grounds of obtaining tropical and natural resources for German industry, to promote German trade and for Germany to have what the standard European power had, colonies as even Belguim had African colonies. Germany's push was rather late in the day, as the colonies obtained were of little actual use - in 1913 Germanys' trade with its colonies was half of one per cent of its total trade volume, while apart from Tsingtao they were not even used for military purposes, only token forces being stationed there.

Had Bismarck been really opposed he would have resigned, or persuaded Kaiser Wilhelm I to veto the move. He certainly would not have given Caprivi in the German Foreign Office virtual carte blanche to handle the negotiations, of which given the late circumstances he did that job pretty well, even though those colonies didn't fulfill the expectations.
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lwd
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Re: The German Dreadnought Kaiserin

Postby lwd » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:15 pm

Well just because they were likly to cost more than they were worth financially doesn't mean they weren't useful for political purposes. IE they weren't likely to do serious damage to Germany and if he could gain something by being "convinced"....

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RF
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Re: The German Dreadnought Kaiserin

Postby RF » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:44 am

One feature of German foreign policy in the thirty years building up to the start of WW1 is the lack of a coherent and consistent strategy, and the pursuance of a string of contradictory objectives. This goes beyond the changes in leadership in the late 1880's and gives the impression that the Germans, particulary Kaiser Wilhelm II didn't really know where they were going and simply reacted to events as they happened. The failure to properly exploit the colonies was one aspect, and as I noted in my previous post the failure to use them for military purposes by a power in which the military were all powerful is one of those glaring contradictions.

The same phenomena occured under the nazies; they too wanted the colonies back, without really identifying what they wanted for, or what they would do with them.
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Gary
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Re: The German Dreadnought Kaiserin

Postby Gary » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:28 pm

I think Wilhelm perhaps was on a power trip by securing Bismarcks resignation.
Wilhelm was only young (early 30's) and maybe he thought Bismarck wouldnt take him seriously and would try to over-influence him?
God created the world in 6 days.........and on the 7th day he built the Scharnhorst

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RF
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Re: The German Dreadnought Kaiserin

Postby RF » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:00 am

Well, Wilhelm ii was the Kaiser and by definition had the final say. May be he was on a permanent power trip throughout his reign, ultimately it was Hindenburg and Ludendorf who eclipsed his authority from 1917 onwards when the ultimate consequences of his ego began to loom large for Germany, as defeat and abdiction approached.

It was Caprivi who replaced Bismarck, and the new Chancellor saw through the colonial acquisitions. Indeed Caprivi's name lives on today, as the Namibia pan handle (as the Americans call it) is still named after him - the Caprivi strip. As Caprivi knew what he was doing it is perhaps evident here that the Kaiser was acting on more than just a power trip.
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Re: The German Dreadnought Kaiserin

Postby Djoser » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:55 pm

Gary wrote:His own grandmother Queen Victoria despised him. That ought to tell you something right there

It was his MOTHER (princess Victoria) that despised him
Queen Victoria actually liked her Grandson.


Queen Victoria to the Prince of Wales:

"William's faults come from impetuousness as well as conceit..."

And after the then Crown Prince William's snub of the Prince of Wales in Vienna, she wrote "All this shows a very unhealthy and unnatural state of mind..." and referred to him as a "hot-headed, conceited, and wrong-headed young man, devoid of all feeling."

In 1885 she wrote to her daughter:

"...that very foolish, undutiful and, I must add, very unfeeling boy, I have no patience with him and I wish he could get a good 'skelping' as the Scotts say." And added that he would not be welcome at Windsor.


She had a funny way of saying she liked him, I suppose.

Actually she was fond of him as a young boy. She also did her best to smooth everyone's ruffled feelings when he got himself into trouble frequently as an adult, and did eventually invite him back to England (where he of course made a flaming ass of himself repeatedly). But we have all seen those close family members who pretend to get along in public, when really they wish they never had to deal with each other. Such was apparently often the case with Queen Victoria and the Kaiser.


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