Naval History Forums

Following Karl's entry about Pearl Harbor 68 years ago, let us not forget another naval action that took place 95 years ago in the far South Atlantic.

Yes, the Germans lost 1,871 men killed, plus 215 captured. The British lost 10 men plus 19 wounded. Quite a debacle.

We must consider, also, the previous battle in which Spee´s Squadron fought against the British off the coast of El Coronel in which some 1,570 english sailors perished. In that ocassion the Germans only had 3 wounded.

Both actions accounted for more casualties than Pearl Harbor itself: No History Channel documentary nor special reminders, no nothing.

It is unfortunate that we forget such important dates these days, especially ones from the first World War 1.

Karl Heidenreich wrote: also, the previous battle in which Spee´s Squadron fought against the British off the coast of El Coronel in which some 1,570 english sailors perished. In that ocassion the Germans only had 3 wounded.

Karl, I think you will find that some of the RN dead came from Wales, Scotland and Ireland (including the part of Ireland which is now Eire) and not just England.....and calling them English would get you a punch in the face.....

Hi RF

Karl can beforgiven for his mistake as he is not alone.
At the Nov 11th parade in my town one of the speakers spoke of the "English" dead which prompted a town councillor to submit a letter to the local paper politely reminding him that when he was reading his speech a contingent of Welsh guards were present!!!!

This is an increasingly sensitive issue, not just for the Scots, Welsh and Irish, but increasingly for the English themselves, particulary when the word ''Britain'' is used for a matter pertaining to England only. I regard myself as English first, British second and European (at least in a political sense) not at all. There are parts of England, such as Cornwall, that some regard as a separate British nation from England.

Scotland has a proud and distinct history, some would say that Scotland was the driving force in the development of the British Empire and in part the Industrial Revolution in Britain.

But that is a separate matter from the title of this forum. Except perhaps to note that the people living in the Falkland Islands, then and now, are proud Britishers.

RF:

Karl, I think you will find that some of the RN dead came from Wales, Scotland and Ireland (including the part of Ireland which is now Eire) and not just England.....and calling them English would get you a punch in the face.....

I stand corrected on this issue. No offense intended, just trying to sum up the casualties of such operations and the relative abandon we have for them.

None taken.

Anyone know just how much 12in ammunition Sturdee's force expended to sink the two armored cruisers?

19kilo wrote:Anyone know just how much 12in ammunition Sturdee's force expended to sink the two armored cruisers?

Almost all of it. I don't have an exact number as I haven't got my books on hand.

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau started the battle with only about half their ammunition, as there was nowhere to repleneish what was used at Coronel.

That should have been something of a wakeup call to the RN in general and the battlecruiser force in particular.

I think no one had really envisaged the implications of long range naval combat where hit rates was below 5%. On the other hand, running out of ammunition was rather uncommon. For example, Hipper's battlecruisers at Jutland, surely one of the most engaged squadrons in modern naval history, used less than half of their ammunition during the battle. Ammo expenditure really only was an issue in special cases. The battle of the Falklands (and Coronel) were rather unique in that the battle was fought out without any need for concern about mines, submarines or reinforcing forces, which created a situation where the battle could be fought to a finsh undisturbed so to speak, and then ammo might well run out.

Quoted from Gary Staff: Battle on the Seven Seas (an excellent book BTW): "Invincible and Inflexible each carried 640 12 inch shells and 24 practice shells, and of these Invincible fired 513 and Inflexible fired 661."