Range of Ersatz Yorck and Mackensen?

From the birth of the Dreadnought to the period immediately after the end of World War I.
Paul L
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Location: Vancouver Canada

Re: Range of Ersatz Yorck and Mackensen?

Postby Paul L » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:01 am

Looking at the ships that had or were planned to install these 12,000 hp diesel engines in Groner’s volumes, the Koenig and Kaiser both had hull depth amid ship of 12.18m with a second figure of 14.4m, which I assume is the height to the Casemate roof. Looking at the Derfflinger the depth figure amid ship is 14.75m and assuming the same height of the Casemate deck that puts the hull depth at ~ 12.5m. The same figure for the Seydlitz and Moltke are about 14.08m & 13.88m respectively So maybe they cannot , but the Derfflinger should have the height to install such diesels. The Mackensens had hull depth of 15m so should have no problem in the height measurement.

Looking back at the Kaiser class Groner reports the engine layout had 3+3 engine rooms attached to each of three shafts. The outer shafts had coal fired Turbine, while the central shaft was empty awaiting the installation of the diesel engine, which took up three engine rooms long! Since the other BB had similar engine layout of 3+3 engine rooms for each shaft, I assume installing them as planned would be little trouble. The Gross Kreuzers are different since they have 4 turbine sets each with only 2+2 rooms in length. But then there are boiler rooms behind this 2+2+0+2+2+2.
Last edited by Paul L on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Eine mal is kein mal"

delcyros
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:26 pm

Re: Range of Ersatz Yorck and Mackensen?

Postby delcyros » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:08 am

The Panzerschiffe Diesel engines were significantly smaller than the massive devices from the first two decades of the 20th century.
The single MAN 9Z42/58 was developing 7100 iHP rated (continous rated power was less at 6550 iHP) at 450 rpm and four engines each were coupled to a single shaft via hydraulic clutch and mechanical Vulcan drive in the Panzerschiffe.

The MAN 6 cyl. Diesel was rated with 12,000 HP in 1912 (but developed more than 17,000 HP on the trial bench), an outstanding performance for a single engine. But it was a bulky and very heavy installation, compared to the more compact, lightweighted Diesel installed in the Panzerschiff.

In addition, the specific fuel consumption was significantly improved by MAN. The MAN 9Z42/58 required 0.164kg/HP/h at 450 rpm and 0.154kg/HP/h at 400 rpm (=5012 iHP). Two such engines required a single slave engine to provide with compressed air and pumping power so that total specific fuel consumption increased to in between 0.188 and 0.223 kg/HP/h, depending on the required poweroutput.
The critical advantage of the later engine was installed weight for power generated, better fuel economy and less spacial demands are handy assets, too.

Paul L
Senior Member
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:04 pm
Location: Vancouver Canada

Re: Range of Ersatz Yorck and Mackensen?

Postby Paul L » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:16 pm

Thanks for your help Delycros!!

Do you know when the Mann Diesels were developed? Looking at Groners volume on this boat, the designs were drawn up between 1926-1928. I assume the Mann Diesel must have been completed prior to this in order to be included in the design? I note that the Panzerschiff designs were 12.4 and 12.2 meter hull depth about the same as the Kaiser and Koenig BB , so I assme these diesels have the same issue regarding height?
"Eine mal is kein mal"

delcyros
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Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:26 pm

Re: Range of Ersatz Yorck and Mackensen?

Postby delcyros » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:36 pm

I´m afraid, I don´t know all the details but I tend to believe the design process has to be seen in light of earlier MAN ship Diesel applications, f.e. the KÖNIGSBERG class light cruisers center shaft Diesels (1927) and 1910 to 1919 projects.


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