Seydlitz or Derfflinger

[Gary]

Hi guys.

When HMS Queen Mary blew up and sank under the fire of Seydlitz and Derfflinger - which ship was actually credited with the sinking?

Seydlitz or Derfflinger?

I always thought that Derfflinger fired the fatal shot but some sources give credit to both ships?

Also, could Seydlitz fire all 10 guns broadside?

http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/battlecruise ... z-line.gif

Could the amidships turret that was not on the side of the action fire over and across the ships own decks?

Finally, which one of the above Germans ships was it that seriously damaged Lion at Dogger Bank forcing her to be towed home?

[MJQ]

Hi guys.
When HMS Queen Mary blew up and sank under the fire of Seydlitz and Derfflinger - which ship was actually credited with the sinking?

Seydlitz or Derfflinger?

I always thought that Derfflinger fired the fatal shot but some sources give credit to both ships?

According to the World War I Naval Combat website (where the Seydlitz line drawing came from), it was both:

At 4.03 the British 5th Battle Squadron opened fire, rapidly hitting von der Tann and Moltke. By now Queen Mary was under the combined fire of Seydlitz and Derfflinger and was hit by three shells from a single salvo at 4.25 and two shells from the next salvo which caused her to blow up.

Also, could Seydlitz fire all 10 guns broadside?

http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/battlecruise ... z-line.gif

Could the amidships turret that was not on the side of the action fire over and across the ships own decks?

The short answer, IIRC, is yes. However, firing across the deck would cause blast damage to the deck on the turret on the other side of the ship.

Finally, which one of the above Germans ships was it that seriously damaged Lion at Dogger Bank forcing her to be towed home?

Again, according to WW1 Naval Combat, Derfflinger was the ship that crippled the Lion:

At 9.40 Lion scored a damaging hit on Seydlitz which penetrated the barbette of the rear turret and set fire to some of the shell propellant. The flames rose into the turret and through a connecting door, which should have been shut, to the second turret killing the crews of both turrets, 159 men in total. Fortunately for Hipper both magazines were flooded before things got any worse. Lion was not having it all her own way as by now she had all three leading German battlecruisers concentrating on her and she was repeated hit, the most serious hit from Derfflinger causing her port water feed to be contaminated and within half an hour her port engine to be shut down.

[Gary]

Hi MJQ.

Yes thats the source of my confusion.
I had always believed that Derfflinger blew up Queen Mary but that site gives credit to both Seydlitz and Derfflinger.

I always thought it was a tad strange to have turrets on the port and starboard side as you would need to fire across your own decks in order to get all guns in a broadside.

For example the Helgoland

http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/battleship/h ... d-line.gif

2 turrets are always going to be redundant in the battleline.

[marcelo_malara]

According to Campbell´s Jutland: An analisys of the fighting, both ships fired on the Queen Mary, but the fatal hits at 16:26 are believed to be from Derfflinger. Anyway, there is no way of determining it.