Swiftsure & Triumph

From the first Ironclad warships to the battle of Tsushima.
Dguts1813
Junior Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:43 pm

Swiftsure & Triumph

Postby Dguts1813 » Thu May 24, 2012 10:59 pm

While reading thru some posts on the Dreadnought era the subject of HMS Agincourt came up & the fact that was acquired under odd circumstance and was, in the end, something of a white elephant.
This got me on to the subject of HMS Swiftsure & Triumph, another pair of oddball ships acquired under unusual circumstances. The two ships were being built for Chile as Libertad & Constitution as part of an ongoing Naval Arms Race with Argentina. In 1903 (or maybe '02, not sure off hand) Chile& Argentina Agreed to submit their differences to arbitration by the Pope. As part of the resulting Treaty all ships being built abroad had to be disposed of. The two Chilean Battleships and two Argentine Armored Cruiser were immediately put up for sale. The Japanese tried to buy the Battleships but could not come up with the funds. They ended up buying the two ACr instead which became the Nisshin and Kasuga in Japanese service. The Russians opened negotiation with Chile for the purchase of the Battleships but the British steeped in and bought them to keep them out of Russian hands. Swiftsure & Triumph were massively out of step with British design concepts of the time - i.e. King Edward VII class and inferior in just about every respect to the preceding British designs.

Ed B.

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7490
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: Swiftsure & Triumph

Postby RF » Fri May 25, 2012 6:18 pm

Interesting then that the Germans showed no interest.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

Dguts1813
Junior Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:43 pm

Re: Swiftsure & Triumph

Postby Dguts1813 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:48 pm

By 1903-04 these ships were almost as out of step with German design philosophy as they were with current British designs. Its also quite likely that the Brits would have stepped into prevent such a sale just as had with the Russians.

Ed B.

culverin
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:31 pm
Location: Hampshire. England.

Re: Swiftsure & Triumph

Postby culverin » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:15 pm

Certainly a right pair of misfits. Wonder what the crews opinions were.

With a further later Chilean acquisition for the RN, the Almirante Latorre in Sept 1914, i have always been mystified why she should be named Canada.
The RN already had a battleship named to honour that Country.
She was the Dominion.
Also odd how the Australia was so named, by them down under. As a newly unified Nation presumably.
The Commonwealth was named to honour them.
And the New Zealand / Zealandia renaming is an issue too, but, hey ho, it was an entire Century ago.
A full broadside. The traditional English salute.
Thanks. Sean.

culverin
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:31 pm
Location: Hampshire. England.

Re: Swiftsure & Triumph

Postby culverin » Sat May 10, 2014 6:47 pm

The acquisition of this pair came at a cost to the British RN.

Funding did not simply come from thin air and would reverberate for a few years, politics dictated reluctantly their incorporation and duly the 4th Minotaur class armoured cruiser Orion and the projected 3rd Lord Nelson class battleship would be sacrificed.

The Lord Nelson issue was one which coincided with the development of the Dreadnought and may consequently be considered irrelevant in view of future developments, but that duo, Lord Nelson and Agamemnon* proved to be an extremely good design in the fullness of time.

Triumph was sunk by U21 off Gaba Tepe during the Dardanelles campaign, Swiftsure became the 1st of the RN's 'pre Dreadnoughts' to pay off on 26 April 1917 when she was duly disarmed and later stripped to act as a blockship in Sept 1918 when the armistice intervened. Scrapped by Stanlee, Dover 1920.

*Agamemnon. This was NOT her original name. King Edward VII had proposed another VERY famous name, but backed down.
Since Trafalgar in 1805 and the British victory over the French / Spanish the RN has almost continuously had a ship named either Nelson, Trafalgar or Agamemnon which was Nelsons favourite ship.
Agamemnon, who was King of the Mycenae, is also the name which carries the battle honour - Trafalgar 1805.
A full broadside. The traditional English salute.
Thanks. Sean.


Return to “The Ironclad & Pre-dreadnought Era (1860-1905)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest