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Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:52 am
by reydelcastillo
New book came out :

Tras los Submarinos Ingleses " Chasing British Subs " written by Mariano Sciaroni tells the story behind the carrier " 25 de Mayo " and it's defense against the British Subs HMS Splendid and HMS Spartan -

http://www.elsnorkel.com/historia/malvi ... racto.html

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:27 am
by RF
Is there an English language version of the book?

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:10 pm
by Aberdeenlad
Very interesting topic of conversation, much better than the usual rubbish that is spouted about HMS Invincible. Thank you to the Argentine members for their input. Sadly, as with all explanations of events, the replies seem to bring up more questions than answers. Thanks again.

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:17 pm
by RF
Welcome to the forum Aberdeenlad.

Yes it does throw up more questions - but in time they too may get answered. We just have to wait and remain patient.

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:16 am
by exbootneck
The Invincible was that Far East of the island that the joke at the time was they got the Burma Star and not the South Atlantic Medal. Prince Andrew bring an Exocet decoy was another joke myth of the day.

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:06 pm
by Larryjc
Hello everyone, just joined today at least in part because of this thread. If anyone can definitely answer this question it is me because I watched the whole thing. I was the Lynx Pilot from HMS Andromeda. There were three ships on picket duty out to the west of the main task force that day. Avenger to the south, Exeter in the middle and Andromeda to the north in a north south line. We were at 6000 feet ahead of everyone, listening for Etendard radar on our ESM. We picked it up and warned the fleet who went 'zippo 1' which meant get ready for Exocet attack. I turned the aircraft back towards the fleet in case there were any other aircraft around. One Exocet was fired although two Etendards were there (it was their last missile). Exeter was tracking the four A4s that carried on after the Exocet launch. We got in the way of the Sea Darts she fired and almost got shot down ourselves. However they took out two A4s. I saw it happen and expect that Avenger thought one was an Exocet. The other two A4s flew over Avenger and bombed her - they missed and got away. The Exocet locked onto Andromeda. I know this because the ops room had lock on detected from the Exocet seeker head on the ships UAA1 ESM equipment. Also Exeter watched it pass astern of them. Andromeda was the third ship there fitted with the Sea Wolf SAM which should have been capable of shooting it down. Unfortunately or more probably fortunately, it ran out of fuel and splashed before it got into engagement range. An interesting day all round!!!
Some facts:
One missile was fired and it fell into the sea.
Avenger did not shoot anything down.
The surviving A4s bombed HMS Avenger and missed.
HMS Invincible was miles away and was not damaged in any way.
I cannot be more definite than that but as an eye witness to the whole thing maybe it will nail this lie once and for all. As for the A4 pilots claiming to have flown down the deck of Invincible and bomb her - rubbish.
If anyone is interested I have a blog covering, amongst other things, my War experiences, taken from my log book. I did this last year to promote my books and if you look you will see adverts for them (sorry!)
I was involved in a lot of the anti - Exocet measures - my helicopter had a jammer fitted to seduce them and I trialled it at Aberporth against a live missile so we knew it worked.
I actually wrote my first novel - 'Sea Skimmer' about the Exocets because to this day I still don't know why the warheads never exploded - now the story behind this could be far more interesting than the Invincible conspiracy theory! As I couldn't find out why - I made it up - hence a novel.

If anyone is interested have a look at posts from last year starting in April on http://sowethereyet.blogspot.co.uk/

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:10 pm
by Larryjc
exbootneck wrote:The Invincible was that Far East of the island that the joke at the time was they got the Burma Star and not the South Atlantic Medal. Prince Andrew bring an Exocet decoy was another joke myth of the day.

Actually you're wrong. When a missile raid was in process they launched every available aircraft to increase the number of potential radar contacts a missile had to choose from. Andrew was launched for just this reason that day although it was a pretty low risk manoeuvre for a helicopter as the missile can't climb. But the press never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

- And I thought we were called 'the Cape Town Air Defence Force'!!!

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:53 pm
by DAVID1962
The Sante Fe was definately scuttled!!

Re: Capture of the Santa Fe

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:22 pm
by paul.mercer
SWORDFISH wrote:HMS Antrim's Wessex HAS 3 (Humphrey), dropped two Mk 11 depth charges, the Santa Fe's ballast fuel tanks were damaged. HMS Brilliant's Lynx HAS2 arrived five minutes later and launched a Mk46 homimg torpedo which circled under the submirine, the Santa Fe could not submerge, as the torpedo would then intercept. A few minutes later, a Wasp from HMS Endurance joined in the fight and fired two AS-12 air to surface misiles . The first missile hit the conning tower, the second fell 30 yards away. The Wasp returned to the Endurance to rearm, it then returned and an AS-12 was launched, exploded close to the submirine's hull, causing a ballast tank to rupture and a serious leak into the boat. The Santa Fe managed to tie up at the jetty in Grytviken harbour, but by this time it was disabled and later it was scuttled.

The Santa Fe was formerly the USS Catfish (SS-339)

It does'nt say much for modern weapons and tactics, including the depth charges and missiles if they cannot even sink an old WW2 sub!

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:31 pm
by steffen19k
paul.mercer wrote:
SWORDFISH wrote:HMS Antrim's Wessex HAS 3 (Humphrey), dropped two Mk 11 depth charges, the Santa Fe's ballast fuel tanks were damaged. HMS Brilliant's Lynx HAS2 arrived five minutes later and launched a Mk46 homimg torpedo which circled under the submirine, the Santa Fe could not submerge, as the torpedo would then intercept. A few minutes later, a Wasp from HMS Endurance joined in the fight and fired two AS-12 air to surface misiles . The first missile hit the conning tower, the second fell 30 yards away. The Wasp returned to the Endurance to rearm, it then returned and an AS-12 was launched, exploded close to the submirine's hull, causing a ballast tank to rupture and a serious leak into the boat. The Santa Fe managed to tie up at the jetty in Grytviken harbour, but by this time it was disabled and later it was scuttled.

The Santa Fe was formerly the USS Catfish (SS-339)

It does'nt say much for modern weapons and tactics, including the depth charges and missiles if they cannot even sink an old WW2 sub!


They don't build 'em like they used to.

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincibl

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:41 am
by Larryjc
There's actually a little more to this. Antrim had worked out where Santa Fe was going to be and deliberately used Mk 11s to disable her. That really should have been an end to it. The Lynx dropped the Mk 46 which would never work against a surfaced sub. It went into 'surface capture' ie its sonar kept detecting the surface as a target and then leaping out of the water - that said it must have scared the crap out of her crew as it porpoised around them. As for the Wasp and its missiles - a ridiculous waste of energy and weapons. The Submarine fine was made of fibreglass an they went straight through. There was some debate afterwards about maybe people getting a little carried away. Its amusing though that the AS12 weapon, originally designed as an anti tank round and then adapted for maritime surface targets was fired for the first time in anger at a submarine!

Re:

Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:22 pm
by Njohnno
iankw wrote:I think you mean the Santa Fe which, if I remember correctly was taken out by a hand held missile launch system (something like Milan I think).

Ian

The Santa Fe was Beached in Grytviken Harbour South Georgia where RFA Sir Bediver landed Clearance divers to remove ordnance and the batteries to reduce harmful chemicals being released into the sea. The Santa Fe was hit by what I beleive to be HMS Endurances Wasp helicopter. There was a large hole in the conning tower.

I have a buff Envelope with On her majestys service with the MV Yorkshireman official stamp and the Santa Fe official stamp.

I went on board the Santa Fe in the days just after the Falklands conflict finished

Re:

Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:35 pm
by Njohnno
marcelo_malara wrote:Welcome to the forum Swordfish, I see you know the stuff of the campaign.

the exocet was destroyed by 4.5-inch gun fire from HMS Avenger


This is quiet strange. Do you think that a 4.5" gun can acomplish anti-missile duties? How would it be aimed? In the Phalanx system the radar continuosly track the incoming missile as well as the stream of bullets to align the barrel. A 4.5" gun is not a rapid fire gun (I mean more than 1000 rpm). The computer would need to provide a fire solution based on the speed of the missile, its course and altitude, and then point the gun, accounting for flight time to an interception point, based on the muzzle velocity of the gun. Don´t think it was possible then, not even now. The missile is 50 cm across, far less than the natural dispersion of the gun. I don´t buy the missile was destroyed that way.
Are you aware of the thereabouts of the carrier from May 30th to her entering port? What about an alleged reduction in the Harrier CAP after the same day?



The Atlantic Conveyor was of course sunk by Skyhawks


Not Robert, she was taken by one or two Exocets, putting her on fire, much like Sheffield.


HMS Avenger did shoot down I believe not 1 but 2 exocet missiles with it's 4.5 inch gun. I witnessed the attack and also the 2 targets being splashed. Not only did the gun take out the exocets but at the time the computer was not engaged and this was done by a gunner using the 4.5 inch gun in manual mode from the GDP. The 2 exocet had been seduced by Chaff and the ship I was on, the Sir Bedivere would have been the next target. We did not have Chaff capability. The Avenger took herself out of the screen and swang across our stern from Starboard to Port, She fired Chaff to protect us and continually fired her 4.5 inch gun. One excet exploded from a hit and the second one splashed into the sea after a proximity fuse exploded the shell and knocked it off course.

I got the chance to speak to the gunner who I served with on the Avengers sister ship HMS Arrow. This was the guy who was the gunner when one of her shells went astray and hit a house in Port Stanley killing 3 of the occupants. This is story is not fable or legend it actually happened I know I was there. Fluke or not it probably saved my ship and many of my shipmates lives.

Re: Malvinas/Falklands war - Alleged attack on HMS Invincible

Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 5:38 pm
by Tallish
I was aboard Invincible during those days and we fired six seadarts, one after another. I know that because I counted them.