The Greatest Naval Battle in History

General naval discussions that don't fit within any specific time period or cover several issues.

Which was the greatest naval battle in history?

You may select 1 option

 
 
View results

User avatar
marcelo_malara
Senior Member
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: buenos aires

Postby marcelo_malara » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:37 pm

After watching 300 and investigating a little Salamis.

User avatar
Karl Heidenreich
Senior Member
Posts: 4808
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Contact:

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:53 pm

300 was a very "cool" movie. I read a book about Thermopylae called "Gates of Fire" in which the second in command of Leonidas is the main character.
And salamis was quite a battle, yes...
But, as a dreadnought buff, my position still goes with Jutland.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

User avatar
marcelo_malara
Senior Member
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: buenos aires

Postby marcelo_malara » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:21 pm

I said Salamis because it was the one on which, not a country, but the entire western civilization depended. If the Persians had won, may be the entire Greek civilization (and most important its ideas) would be lost forever.

User avatar
Karl Heidenreich
Senior Member
Posts: 4808
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Contact:

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:34 am

Marcelo:

I said Salamis because it was the one on which, not a country, but the entire western civilization depended. If the Persians had won, may be the entire Greek civilization (and most important its ideas) would be lost forever.


Agreed. There was, also, a very similar situation a many years after Salamis, in which the western civilization was also threatened: Lepanto. Again the westeners won the day and our way of life preserved.

Maybe we are at the doors of a new decisive moment...
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7404
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Postby RF » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:57 pm

Lepanto I think had the greatest effect on world history.

Jutland was a big battle that had no influence on the course of history, but if Scheer had won a decisive victory then it would have had a major impact....
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7404
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Postby RF » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:59 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:I believe this is going very "off-limits" of the original thread. How the greatest naval battle come to Stalin, the A-Bomb and Fuchs?


Best regards


Good question!!!

I suppose these digressions follow from the consequences of the impacts of these battles.....
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
Karl Heidenreich
Senior Member
Posts: 4808
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Contact:

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:44 pm

Jutland had no impact because at the end the allies won the war. If Scheer had a victory then the HSF could blocked England and now France would have been Germany´s biggest province and no World War II, no Cold War, and maybe a Japanese Empire thru the Pacific and Indian Ocean.
But it wasn´t that way...

Lepanto was very, but very decisive. If the Europeans had lost that particular battle then modern Europe would have been what Oriana Fallaci called: Eurabia....
Let´s hope that socialist politicians and "humanitarian" leaders don´t turn Europe´s ancestor most important victory in a defeat from the hordes of islamic fanatics that are living in Europe´s cities suburbs...
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

User avatar
Ulrich Rudofsky
Contributor & Translator
Posts: 844
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:16 pm
Location: State of New York

Postby Ulrich Rudofsky » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:04 pm

An interesting recent book is: The Battle of Salamis: The Naval Encounter That Saved Greece -and the Western World. Barry Strauss, Simon Schuster 2004. My present understanding the historic significance of this battle has now become far less certain than 19th Century historians have proclaimed during their rehabilitation of Herodotus. The Greeks saved themselves from self-destruction more than from the Persians who were already overextended. The co-commander Themosticles somehow survived all of these civil wars and Persian attacks, and he even moved to Persia when all was said and done. We see most of this historic set of events through the eyes of Herodotus and his interpretors and translators. Herodotus was not an eye witness and he wrote his books in the manner of Greek story telling. Our belief that the Battle of Salamis changed the history of the western (entire?) world is perhaps a bit overstated.
Ulrich

User avatar
marcelo_malara
Senior Member
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: buenos aires

Postby marcelo_malara » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:42 pm

Herodotus was not an eye witness and he wrote his books in the manner of Greek story telling. Our belief that the Battle of Salamis changed the history of the western (entire?) world is perhaps a bit overstated.


The Bible is written in a far less credible mode and millions believe in it...

User avatar
Ulrich Rudofsky
Contributor & Translator
Posts: 844
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:16 pm
Location: State of New York

Postby Ulrich Rudofsky » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:21 pm

That does not make it correct :negative: Herodotos described the continuous fighting among the people on the Greek Islands as a way of life. The so-called "civilization" would not have survived without the colonization by some of them of Sicily and Italy. Herododtos himself was apparently asked to go there, since his citizenship was questionable. It reminds me of the colonization of the Americas which also helped to saved the "western world" more than once :lol:
Ulrich

User avatar
marcelo_malara
Senior Member
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: buenos aires

Postby marcelo_malara » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:46 pm

Yes Ulrich, you are right. The Greeks themselves were far from being peaceful people, and the Persians were far from being barbarians. But in those years, so far ago, the whole idea of the democracy and the maths were worth saving. And yes again, the colonization of America was presented as salvation for the savages tribes, inspite of the fact that for that salvation the indians had to be reduced to slavery and murdered by the millions.

User avatar
Ulrich Rudofsky
Contributor & Translator
Posts: 844
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:16 pm
Location: State of New York

Postby Ulrich Rudofsky » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:10 pm

I am thinking more about the late 19th and 20th century, when Europe needed "saving" several times. History is always much better when it viewed and edited by "perfect" hindsight.
Ulrich

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7404
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Postby RF » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:28 am

The problem with history is that it is always interpreted by the winners.

This is particulary so when ''political correctness'' is involved....
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

User avatar
Karl Heidenreich
Senior Member
Posts: 4808
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: San José, Costa Rica
Contact:

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:43 pm

Political correct apreciation stinks!
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

User avatar
Ulrich Rudofsky
Contributor & Translator
Posts: 844
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:16 pm
Location: State of New York

Postby Ulrich Rudofsky » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:16 pm

But when it comes to the history of the Battle of Salamis, Herodotos had to be extremely "politically correct" in his writings, since he had no citizenship rights, I think. Having now lived 72 years on this planet, I have come to the pessimistc conclusion that all historical interpretations and many records are whatever suits politically correctness status quo. Happily, I am getting to the point where I don't really give a damn.
Ulrich


Return to “Naval History in General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest