Shell interchangability

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paul mercer
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Shell interchangability

Post by paul mercer » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:41 am

Would shells manufactured in different countries interchange i.e. would a 14/15/16" British shell fit and fire in the equivalent gun made in the US/France/Germany/Italy and vice versa?

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Post by Bgile » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:07 pm

Since they were the same diameter you'd think they would be interchangeable, but I've seen references from time to time which stated that such and such a shell wasn't. This has led me to conclude that probably none of them were interchangeable, but I don't know for sure.

I know that in the specific case of the US 2700 lb 16" AP shell, only the newer US battleships had loading machinery that could handle it. It was too long to be used in the older ships, but that's another issue.

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marcelo_malara
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Post by marcelo_malara » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:24 pm

I don´t believe so. The dimensions of the shells are not just the diameter, but the forcing band (that bites the rifling) depth. If the forcing band is less deep, the shell would not seal the gases, if it is bigger, well, you may imagine.

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Gary
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Post by Gary » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:13 pm

What did they do for Richelieu later in the war?
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Post by Tiornu » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:21 pm

An American company manufactured 15in shells specifically for Richelieu.

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RF
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Post by RF » Thu May 03, 2007 10:15 am

I have come across accounts concerning the 37 and 88 millimetre guns used by the Heer and Kriegsmarine as having their own ammunition types and not being interchangeable, ie. the Heer 88 round could not be used on a KM 88 gun and vice versa.
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RF
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Post by RF » Thu May 03, 2007 10:25 am

I believe that the German 15 inch, or 380 millimetre shell was actually 14.96 inches, so would not, on a diameter basis, be comparable with say Hood's 15 inch shells. On that basis the diameters stated won't be compatible as they are not exact; a German 15 inch would have to be 381 millimetres.

However, as both the UK and USA used imperial and not metric measurements, would it be the case that the US 16 inch shell could be fired by Rodney/Nelson, and their 16 inch ammo used by the Iowa class battleships? Was it ever tried?

Another interesting point - when the Royal Navy had the Prinz Eugen at the end of WW2 did they try to ascertain whether the PE's guns could fire the British county class cruiser standard 8 inch round?
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marcelo_malara
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Post by marcelo_malara » Thu May 03, 2007 12:28 pm

Robert:

The rifling depth must be the same.

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Post by Bgile » Thu May 03, 2007 1:55 pm

RF wrote:I believe that the German 15 inch, or 380 millimetre shell was actually 14.96 inches, so would not, on a diameter basis, be comparable with say Hood's 15 inch shells. On that basis the diameters stated won't be compatible as they are not exact; a German 15 inch would have to be 381 millimetres.

However, as both the UK and USA used imperial and not metric measurements, would it be the case that the US 16 inch shell could be fired by Rodney/Nelson, and their 16 inch ammo used by the Iowa class battleships? Was it ever tried?

Another interesting point - when the Royal Navy had the Prinz Eugen at the end of WW2 did they try to ascertain whether the PE's guns could fire the British county class cruiser standard 8 inch round?
I've never heard of it being tried. Also, the shell handling equipment on the newest US battleships was designed to accomodate the "super heavy" 16" shell. For example, the Colorado couldn't use them. They were longer than prior designs.

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Nellie
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Post by Nellie » Thu May 03, 2007 5:33 pm

RF wrote:

Another interesting point - when the Royal Navy had the Prinz Eugen at the end of WW2 did they try to ascertain whether the PE's guns could fire the British county class cruiser standard 8 inch round?
Hi RF!
How did they get Prinz Eugen? Did they use her in fleetcommissions?

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RF
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Post by RF » Fri May 04, 2007 10:02 am

The Prinz Eugen was captured undamaged by the British at Copenhagen in May 1945, and was sailed to Britain under its own crew escorted by the cruiser Devonshire.

After some time the PE was allocated to the US Navy and sailed to San Diego via Panama Canal, again by its German crew under US command. The PE was then expended by the US in the Bikini Atoll atom bomb tests.
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Post by ostriker » Tue May 29, 2007 7:56 am

The only case of shell interchangability i know is for the french AA 127mm mod 1948. These gun were french-designed but took the advantage of the availability of the US Ammunition.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_5-54_m1948.htm

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