Diesel engined battleships

Propulsion systems, machinery, turbines, boilers, propellers, fuel consumption, etc.
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RF
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Post by RF » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:42 pm

_Derfflinger_ wrote:

The fuel combustion also wasn't as efficient as hoped - they smoked far more than anyone predicted, much to the dismay of the Kapitan zur See of each ship during their raiding missions.

Derf
Yes, I am reminded of the entry made by Langsdorf in the log of AGS after Kapitan Dau of Altmark had commented to him that he had sighted AGS from the funnel smoke some ten minutes prior to the AGS Director locating the supply ship.

I gather that the problem was reduced by running the affected ships at full speed for an hour, prior to sun-up.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

CONDOR
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Re: Diesel engined battleships

Post by CONDOR » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:02 pm

RE: Graf Spee: How were the main diesel engines connected to the propulsion shafts? Was it through couplings, mechanical or electricaL? Were there speed reduction gears between the main diesel engines and the propulsion shafts? Seems to me that the main diesel engine RPM's had to be reduced somehow to the optimum propulsion shaft speed.

Nobody
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Re: Diesel engined battleships

Post by Nobody » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:19 pm

Germany, especially MAN, build several different large diesel engines for warship use. Most of the ship these engines were supposed to power were finished, or even started.
All these large main engines were double-acting-two-stroke Diesels, to minimize the required weight and space.

The first one was a 12000 hp 6-cylinder, but by the time it was "war-ready" in 1917 it's ship the "SMS Prinzregent Luitpold" hat already been commissioned without its third shaft.

After that came the 7100 hp 9-cylinder (type MZ 42/58) which powered the Deutschland-class.

Based on these, a V-Version (type VZ 42/58) was developed and build. This engine made a 200 hour endurance run at 10000 hp in 1939.

Some engines for the H-class battleships were also build. Some parts like a piston with connecting rod are on display in museums. Each shaft should have been driven by four 9-cylinder (Type MZ 65/95) motors with a combined power of 50000 to 55000 shp. Therefore a single engine produced between 13400 and 15000 hp (without gearing losses).

A different engine was build and tested during WW2. It's a 24-cylinder-V-engine (type ZV 32/44) producing 10000 hp (endurance), 12600 hp (max) and 15000 hp with an exhaust-turbo-charger which allowed a weight to power ratio of 4 kg/hp. Six of these engine were planned to power the destroyer Z51. One engine is at display at Sinsheim.

As far as I know are the U-Boat (submarine) and S-Boat (MTB) engines unrelated.

P.S.: The numbers in the MAN type designations represent the bore and stroke in centimeters.

Brett
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Re: Diesel engined battleships

Post by Brett » Thu May 27, 2010 2:10 am

Often have wondered is a Deltic engine configuration with a main shaft running through the centre would give a power to weight and size rating comparable to the high pressure steam setup. Technically feasible given that the Deltic is based on the Jumo 205 that was ready in the 1930's time frame. The engine woulds be derated for longer life and made larger with say eight cylinders in each bank and four banks not three plus bigger bore. Aim for a unit of say 5000 SHP so four would give 20,000 per shaft for destroyers and eight would give 40,000 SHP per shaft for bigger ships. Lengh of such engine would be two metres or even three thus needing a long engine space but being narrow would mean the shafts could be side by side. A single engine failure would be immaterial and spares could be kept on board. Such linked engine designed were considered for the Deltic and it was used in an old S boat and proved to be much superior to the existing engines by being lighter, shorter and more powerful. I would be tempted to use localised clutches and gear boxes on each engine and group shift thus giving broad speed range and ability to shut down engines when crusing. Vibration from the engines would be minor as the Deltic is a smooth running design and has many pistons. My only concern is the length of the engine bank. Also how the weight is distributed to avoid hull stress.

Alternative my perfect design would be diesel electric with say 160 to 200 high speed 1 mega watt motors link driving the four electric motors. This gives great freedom of placing the system, wonderful ability to segment a ship and does away with long shafts and the POW issue. The Normady Ocean liner would be my model. In fact, given that ship's advance hull and use of electric motors I am puzzled why at the least the French did not consider the system for a warship. The hinderance is weight as I believe it was proposed by the Bismark but dropped. Surely the battle damage absorption ability would tempting for the sluggers of the fleet. Also make for great ability to steer on the propellers plus by full speed on two and full speed reverse give a sharper turning circle to dodge torpedeos.

Both system I proposed would be very fuel efficient and provide great redundancy and in the 1930's time frame (assuming linking of multiple 1 MW units is feasible) being a better options than high pressure steam. By 1938 high pressure steam would be much better but by then it would barely be in ships launched in time for a 1940 war with the planned naval show down in 1941 with Britian. Funny thing might be my design would have issues and a person sixity years later would be writing that high pressure steam should have been used. O'well such is life.

Cheers Brett

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