Preston: Worst warships of all time

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alecsandros
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Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby alecsandros » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:16 pm

Hello,

I found this book on "worst warships ships ever built from the 1860s onward".

Unfortunately, the book is poorly written, researched, and has eye-poping conclusions (in general, the ships that got sunk are "the worst"). For instance, an excerpt regarding the Bismarck, on page 151:

"The Bismarck's problems fall under two heads - inherent design flaws and tactical errors[...]. The Bismarck class [...] suffered from weak stern structures. [...] The evidence for scuttling rests on very dubious claims in teh German media by people claiming to have been on board to the effect that the enginerooms were 'ready for Admiral's inspection', and an order to fire the scuttling charges followed shortly afterwards. Unfortunately all these rather dubious claims ignore the testimony of survivors to the effect taht the ship was an inferno between decks, and nobody from below was sighted after the action began[...] The claim that 'not a single shell penetrated the armour' is refuted by underwater photographs, which showed some 400 holes in the hull[...] "

Other ships on the "worst ever" list include Yamato class, Mogami class, Deutschland class pocket battleships.

So, in light of the things having said so far, I was thinking of starting a "worst books about naval warfare ever". I'll start with the above mentioned.

Cheers!

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marcelo_malara
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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby marcelo_malara » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:09 pm

Some time ago I was about of buying this one, thanks for saving me the money!!!

Bad books I have:

-500 years of naval artillery: just a collection of photographs of preserved naval guns, no technical descriptions, no text

-BBs of the Bismarck class (by Koop): another photo collection, little text, plans very small for practical utility

-Naval firepower (by Friedman): a compilation of the different fire control devices used in major warships, no technical description of them, no coverage of guns and ammo (as the title may suggest).

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:29 am

alecsandros:

That book will find a very good acceptance around here.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby alecsandros » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:56 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:alecsandros:

That book will find a very good acceptance around here.


:D :D :D

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RF
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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby RF » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:42 pm

Some of the criticisms of Bismarck do have some validty. However the tactical handling of the ship cannot be a relevant criticism as it was neither the ships fault or that of its builders.

Other criticisms of Bismarck however are not quoted here and as I have not seen or read this book I cannot comment any further.

Nevertheless the book and Bismarck do have one thing in common. They are both being criticised on this website......
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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby boredatwork » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:42 am

marcelo_malara wrote:-Naval firepower (by Friedman): a compilation of the different fire control devices used in major warships, no technical description of them, no coverage of guns and ammo (as the title may suggest).


I have it and I rather enjoyed it - though I previewed it on Google books before buying so maybe I knew what it was I was getting. I agree that the title could have been better though... "Development of Naval Gunfire Control in the Big Gun Era" or similar...

I can't really add any "worst warship books" to the list because if I don't like them they stay on the shelf at the bookshop and are soon forgotten.

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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby yellowtail3 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:40 pm

Worst warships of all time

I'd nominate Kriegsmarine's light cruisers and destroyers from the WW2 era...
Shift Colors... underway.

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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby lwd » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:50 pm

I'd nominate a vessel that's actually a favorite of mine and I believe one of the leading candidates for the best name of a warship. USS Vesuvias (the one that served during the Spanish American war). Interesting idea, probably a worthwhile experiment, but not something I want to be in when confronting another warship unless I'm really lucky.

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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby Thorsten Wahl » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:14 pm

Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!

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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby boredatwork » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:55 am

Confining myself to 20th century warships I would say Corageous, Glorious, and Furious in their original guise would be near the top of any list - about the only design feature that wasn't a failure was their machinery.

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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby RF » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:20 pm

To me some of the worst warships were the battlecruisers that were given battleship tasks for which they were not really designed - but is that really the fault of the ships?
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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby Karl Heidenreich » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:01 pm

Well, if we consider what is expected of some battleship, the outcome of a certain episode and we can freeze time on a single date, in this case the night of Nov.14-15, 1942 then USS South Dakota will take over, with honours, that title, no sweat.

Because what happened to HMS Glorious was her skipper´s fault, not something inherent to the ship design or building. But what happened to South Dakota, was the ship itself.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby lwd » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:32 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Well, if we consider what is expected of some battleship, the outcome of a certain episode and we can freeze time on a single date, in this case the night of Nov.14-15, 1942 then USS South Dakota will take over, with honours, that title, no sweat.

Because what happened to HMS Glorious was her skipper´s fault, not something inherent to the ship design or building. But what happened to South Dakota, was the ship itself.

After all the times we've discussed this you still get it wrong. ....

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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby Bgile » Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:41 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Well, if we consider what is expected of some battleship, the outcome of a certain episode and we can freeze time on a single date, in this case the night of Nov.14-15, 1942 then USS South Dakota will take over, with honours, that title, no sweat.

Because what happened to HMS Glorious was her skipper´s fault, not something inherent to the ship design or building. But what happened to South Dakota, was the ship itself.


I wasn't going to respond to this because I think it's just a cheap shot, but I couldn't help myself.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. The partial loss of electric power for several minutes? As far as I know, that could have happened on any battleship in the world, given the mistake that was made. Are you saying this condemns an entire class of battleships as "worst ever" because someone bypassed isolation procedure and locked in a circuit breaker?

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Re: Preston: Worst warships of all time

Postby boredatwork » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:41 am

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Because what happened to HMS Glorious was her skipper´s fault, not something inherent to the ship design or building. But what happened to South Dakota, was the ship itself.


*sigh*

boredatwork wrote:I would say Corageous, Glorious, and Furious in their original guise


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glorious_(77)


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