The best PC game

[Derbyshire Dragons]

Can you help me please can you tell me which is the best game to get with the fantastic battleship Bismarck?? and if possible the Scharnhorst and the grap spree?? thank you

[Bgile]

In my opinion ... Fighting Steel, after applying the latest mod. I believe you can get both from:

http://forums.nws-online.net/

[Ramius]

Any game without the need of upgrades and new versions that has the desired WW2 BB's we all so dearly love

[lwd]

There's an online multiplayer game called Navy Field I believe that may have a Bismark model. I'm not at all sure how accurate the model is. I think you have to play for quite a while before you rate a BB as well but am not sure since I haven't looked in on it since the beta ended well over a year ago.

[Ramius]

Thanks, any others that aren't online?

[Bgile]

Fighting Steel is a pretty good simulation, but you really need to download the NWS mod to get the best accuracy and the lesser known BBs.

The last time I looked at Navyfield it seemed pretty unrealistic, with high end battleships having incredible rates of fire, and accuracy depending on your twitch skills, not the ship. Proably a fun game, but not a sim if that is what you are looking for.

[lwd]

I hadn't looked at Navy Field in a few years. Seeing this started me thinking back on it. As I recall you started out with a small ship and upgraded it as you got experiance. Some of the upgrades may have been with guns other than the appropriate ones for instance. Since it was multi player there were some intersting actions but if you want an accurate portrayal of any ship I don't think it's what you want.

As for other games I think I've got an old SSI game (dos based?) that might have Bismark in it. Then there's a fair number of good minitature games. A couple of them used a PC to calculate hits and damage. You might want to look at them. And of course if you want WWI instead and have a big floor there's always Avalon Hill's Jutland. Actually it shouldn't be too hard to program that with a modern visual language. Perhaps not pretty but ....

[VeenenbergR]

To Lwd,

I once had a Jutland game (2nd version, bought in 1974). It was a nice game of Avalon Hill, with very high quality components, well written rules. In 1980 I bought "Bismarck" from Avalon Hill, supposed it was also the 2nd edition, with 2 strategic search boards and 1 big tactical board. The tactical part could also been played on the table using the counters in the Jutland way. Bismarck could go for Bergen, Trondheim, El Ferrol and Brest, St. Nazaire.
There were only 2 long distance Condor units in the game. Can not remember other Luftwaffe units (KG26, KG30 and KG40).

I played it 2 times and it WAS thrilling!!! The Allies tried to close in and Bismarck was not particular stronger than the British battleships. In those days there was no Internet (only books) and I tried to write letters to Avalon Hill for questions. So bought some "Generals" and could read that Scharnhorst could only hope to penetrate the armour of DoY at distances > 28.000 yards!!! If Bey had known this, he would perhaps saved his ammo. Reason also that DoY was willing to close the distance. Irronically Scharnhorst was mortally hit on this longer distance!!!

So advice every one to go the EBAY and buy a Bismarck game.

Bismarck also played a crucial role in another boardgame of avalon Hill: War at Sea (ultimate popular and RARE).
This was a AREA board game with each side trying to win in 7 areas to score VP's. If a side had domination in an area the next turn enemy ships had to stop there.
The sinkabality of the Bismarck (4*-9-6) was a "9" compared to a "5" of Scharnhorst and 5 of PoW (4-5-6) and Rodney (5-5-3). QE were 4-4-4 and Royal Oak's a 4-4-3. Heavy cruisers were 1-1-7's with Admiral Hipper class a 1-2-7 and Deutschland class a 2-2-5. Hood was a 4-4-7 and Repulse a 3-3-6. Littorio's were 4-6-6. The Richelieu was later added as a 4-7-7. Yes what about these factors??? There were also carriers, German subsAllied convoys and 2 airforce counters.
There were 2 Russian ships in leningrad (Marat) with a 3-3-3.

First factor = number of attack dies, second factor = sinkablity in hits; third factor = speed. Ships must fight ONE round of combat and can disengage in a next round. The winner of the battle then can pursue the disengaging ships with ships with equal or higher speed. Each hit dimishes the sinkability with 1, speed with 1 aso. Here all Germans capital ships hit at 5 & 6 (6 sided die) IF undamaged. All other ships did hit at only 6, with a 5 crippling a ship and sending it home.

For the Pacific there were a host of naval games, most popular of all time: Victory in the Pacific: a more advanced War at Sea system. Later AH released a product to join both games and supply the missing capital ships (of Italy, France etc including new counters for WAS.
I played VITP for dozens of times and I still find it a HUGE game. Some factors on some ships are stil puzzling me like the 1-2-8 /3A for the Soryu and ONLY a 1-1-8/3A for the Hiryu, where Hiryu was the better built ship of these 2.

Yamato was a 6-9-5 and Iowa a 5-9-7 with a bonus for the 5 (5&6 hit instead of only a 6).

[Bgile]

I played all those games. The really irritating thing about strategic movement in Bismarck was that there was simultaneous movement and two ships could switch places, effectively moving through each other without any contact.

[VeenenbergR]

Bgile,

Yes that was an irritating aspect of Bismarck (AH).

In all hidden (called also "double blind") game board games like Avalon Hills first Midway, Bismarck and later also the more professional Smithsonian Series of Avalon Hill: Midway and Guadalcanal: planes, ships or random calling off spaces are searching for the enemy and therefore you also betray your own position.

In International Teams (Italy) Supermarina (1981) there are mini maps of a huge Med. map based on the U-boat map the Germans used in WWII. This is truly a monster game. On the mini-maps the ships and fleets must sail according pre plotted lines to attack or protect convoys. The submarines are more or less static, initially hidden until they have to leave for port. So if you have 4 different fleets they all have to plot all movement.
During turns aircraft may spot enemy fleets and on the next turn you can then plot for an arrangement or escape.

So you have to call the quadrants your fleet is moving to (each side moving simultaniously) until you enter enemy quadrants or battleships or carriers can launch attacks from adjacing or more distant quadrants.

A thrilling game!!!

[VeenenbergR]

Bgile.

Which board game do you find best regarding WWII and naval combat??

There are about 3 dozen naval war games. Most dealing with the Pacific.
- Eagle & Sun,
- Empire of the Sun,
- Empire of the Rising Sun,
- Pacific War,
- Pacific Typhoon,
- Victory in the Pacific,
- Tokyo Express,
- Midway (2x),
- Guadalcanal,
- Iron Bottom Sound,
- Flat Top,

And many more!!!

There are truly monster games with 9000 counters!!!

[lwd]

I think there have been some adoptations of the Harpoon rules to WWII at least the miniature ones. Not sure about the computerized version. For modern naval they were some of the best rules around back when I looked at them. They've been improved since from what I've heard. There are also a couple of sites on the web that are set up to allow the play of many of the AH and other board game classics over the web.

[Bgile]

Bgile.

Which board game do you find best regarding WWII and naval combat??

There are about 3 dozen naval war games. Most dealing with the Pacific.
- Eagle & Sun,
- Empire of the Sun,
- Empire of the Rising Sun,
- Pacific War,
- Pacific Typhoon,
- Victory in the Pacific,
- Tokyo Express,
- Midway (2x),
- Guadalcanal,
- Iron Bottom Sound,
- Flat Top,

And many more!!!

There are truly monster games with 9000 counters!!!

I'm sorry, but I don't play board games anymore.

Computer games have ruined them for me because they have so many advantages. I've saved some of them in case I couldn't use my computer anymore for some reason, but that's about it. It's actually been quite a while since I played Fighting Steel or Steel Panthers, my two favorites.

[dfrighini]

One of the best computer games (for battleships) is Peter Turcan's Dreadnoughts, its an old MS DOS based game written in 1992.

I'm also a member of Navyfield, however, this game should carry a warning, as it takes years to achieve anything. I've been playing two years and have only just got my first battleship.

[dfrighini]

I found a good way to simulate naval battles is to use the Silent Hunter 3 mission editor, place two ships (Rodney Vs. Bismarck), for example, with set course (i.e. way points) and watch them (automatically) batter the hell put of each other! When you use the mission editor you have a little control over the crew of the battleships, which you can set between novice and veteran. You must watch the battle in Silent Hunter three's free view mode, whilst your sub is dives, so it does not get shot at!

have fun!