James Cameron's Expedition Bismarck

nwhdarkwolf · Post by **nwhdarkwolf** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:17 pm

Has anyone seen this?

I have been considering it's purchase, but I am very weary of buying a DVD without some prior knowledge.

Karl Heidenreich · Post by **Karl Heidenreich** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:57 pm

It has good b/w videos of Bismarck and of the battles; very good CGI of Bismarck, Denmarck Straits, the Swordfish attack, the sinking and a segment of Leni´s Triumph of the Will with a very cool hard rock soundtrack. That´s why it´s worth, because all that material. The rest is pure James Cameron´s political correct speech. I give you some examples:
1. There is a statement of the narrator that says that the German Naval Strategy was to "... sink the ships and kill their crews..." As if the KM was the SS detachment at Auschwitz.
2. It tells, plainly, that the Bismarck was the most powerfull warship of her time (he believes people are plain ignorant and doesn´t know that Yamato and Musashi, as many others BBs, were about of being comissioned that very year). So he says that Bismarck was "... the Death Star of her times..." It´s annoying. Cameron´s idea of culture is Star Wars.

3. The account of Denmarck Straits it´s just fragments. At one point he says that Bismarck and Hood "... approached each other as knights in armour... " "Aproaching each other"

It´s obvious he never saw a map of the battle. Maybe Antonio Bonomi can send one to him.

4. After the account of DS they interview two Bismarck survivors in a very manipulative way. They end saying how wrong they were, being handled by Hitler and all that political correct BS. As if the RN or USN or IJN sailors or soldiers fought for Churchill or Rooseevelt or Togo, they do it because it was their duty, whatever the regime. Isn´t the US armed Forces that have this motto: "It´s not for us to question why but to do or die". I just like to see a US soldier in Bagdad saying how he would not fight until Bush resigns as US President. Those sailors did what they had to do.
An so on, man, it´s more or less entertaining, some parts more than others. I would have liked that a better moviemaker or documentarist made it: maybe Werner Herzog or a Sir Richard Attenborough.
Isn´t nothing too serious, just fine for a rainy Saturday afternoon.

nwhdarkwolf · Post by **nwhdarkwolf** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:15 pm

Cool. Thanks for the info.

Sounds like one of those things I have to rent, at least.

I'm not much on political mumbo jumbo, as I have my own beliefs on these things. I don't need Cameron, Moore, or anyone else telling me how to feel about things. LOL

I get that from my Dad, who was an officer in the US Navy. He always said that he didn't always agree with the President on the decisions he made, when placing troops in harm's way. But, he also said, he wouldn't question those orders, based upon the fact that he wasn't paid to question them, just to do the job. You can do any job without liking it, trust me on that one. LOL

marcelo_malara · Post by **marcelo_malara** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:22 pm

1. There is a statement of the narrator that says that the German Naval Strategy was to "... sink the ships and kill their crews..." As if the KM was the SS detachment at Auschwitz.

Is it said in the original English version or may be a bad translation?

2. It tells, plainly, that the Bismarck was the most powerfull warship of her time

He may say the most powerfull warship of her time in Europe.

Karl Heidenreich · Post by **Karl Heidenreich** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:18 pm

Hi Marcelo!:

With the statement about KM killing crews at first I believed it was bad translation because I heard it in Spanish, and there were a lot of translation problems as to regard Prinz Eugen as a destroyer. Well, this was not the case: it say it in English too!
About the Bismarck as the most powerfull ship. You and I or everybody else that know about those things can say it and argue about it. Cameron say it only to compare Bismarck with the Death Star and shock kids in awe with his gruesome description. He didn´t say it in order to give a true concept, he did it in order to mislead people. He mixes History with his own, and very poor, preconceptions of what he is presenting.

marcelo_malara · Post by **marcelo_malara** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:50 pm

Yes, you are right. We shouldn`t waste time watching those things. He should go on doing his best: just films, not documentaries.
I was thinking, when I am watching a documentary about animals for example in Discovery, and it is really good, it ends having been made by the BBC. Those guys knows really how to make things. Didn`t they made something about Bismarck and Hood?

nwhdarkwolf · Post by **nwhdarkwolf** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:14 pm

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/shop ... d=bismarck

I think you are thinking of the National Geographic Society. Dr. Robert Ballard is the one doing this one.

I'm also considering this one...I can only hope its a good one. LOL

marcelo_malara · Post by **marcelo_malara** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:35 pm

Hi, I was really thinking in BBC.
Natgeo does a great job too. They had founded thousand of expeditions around the globe, they deserves clearly our support. Wasn`t Ballard the guy that went to Iron Bottom?

nwhdarkwolf · Post by **nwhdarkwolf** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:40 pm

I have gone through the BBC web site, and have not found a Bismarck documentry.

Which one are referring too? I'd love to see it.

Karl Heidenreich · Post by **Karl Heidenreich** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:33 pm

There is one 2002 documentary called "The Battle of Hood and Bismarck" by PBS Home Video. I didn´t see it but I know it exists.
Best regards!

nwhdarkwolf · Post by **nwhdarkwolf** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:04 pm

http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.js ... Id=1404660

Thanks, Karl.

I am going to have to order that one.

Antonio Bonomi · Post by **Antonio Bonomi** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:16 am

Ciao all,

I think I have almost everything made in film and documentaries about Bismarck and Hood ,... still I miss the L. Kennedy BBC documentaries on both BS and TP

, .. and maybe some others I do not know about.

But I do have all the ones listed above so I think I can give you some insight, .. just my personal opinion of course

.

You cannot pretend on any of those to have the level of precision, depth of analysis and competences you can find currently on the Internet on the various singular subjects, especially on website like this one.

The level of the documentaries are related to the witness, their importance and the competence supports they had to make it ( people with skill they hired supposed to make consulting work with them).

I do not want to judge anybody, as any of them had their style and approach to make the documentary, the final result speack for themselves, just like for a book.

R. Ballard one was done on 1989, ...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002S ... ance&n=130

J. Cameron one on 2002,..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008 ... ance&n=130

D. Mearns one about Bismarck and Hood was made on 2002 as well.

http://www.shoppbs.org/sm-pbs-battle-of ... 04660.html

I will not list the errors and the incorrect statements I found ( many ), you can listen and found them yourself

.

Many I saw you already found,..as well as I will not tell you were they used other ships images than the ones they are talking about ( Italian or American ships)

, ..... or when they even reversed original video or misplaced the photo/film sequences

, ..... just look yourself and have fun finding them.

Just take out of those documentaries what is good, .. the witnesses interviews, .. the original images, .. the wreck images ( and please do not trust blindly what they are saying as many times those are wrong statements too, like the rudder forced into the propeller by the torpedo

).

viewtopic.php?p=4638#4638

What I would like to say, .. again as my personal opinion only, ... is that among them I liked David Mearns well researched, competent and very fair work done, .. SUPERB !

.
On his documentary he used the help of very good and talented skilled supports ( Bill Jurens, E. Grove for example

) that he allowed to work well, .. and the overall result speacks for itself.

It is not a secret opinion, as I congratulate him personally already on HMS Hood website time ago :

http://www.readybb.com/hmshood/viewtopic.php?t=171

a well deserved recognition

.

My 2 cents,... but you can compare, evaluate and let me know your opinion too,....

Ciao Antonio

ap · Post by ap » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:54 am

Hi !

One thing that I couldn't believe in the J.Cameron film. It is stated that each turrets weight was 1.8t (or 1.9t)... I can't believe it, only 1.8t for 1 turret? They are so huge. There is a CGI that shows the internal structure of one the turret, they had several floors inside with sailors working on them ! How on earth they can say it weight only 1.8t !?!?!?

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