Mistakes in the movie "Sink the Bismarck"

[José M. Rico]

This topic has been moved here from the old forum. Feel free to continue the discussion.
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28 Jun 2004 18:04:25 - Karl Heidenreich

There are obvious mistakes in that movie, as the sinking of the Solent and shooting down a Swordfish (Not to say the character of Admiral Lutjens). But seeing it last night I came to this conclusions:

1. The norwegian spy was on his country's coast and saw the Bismarck sailing from right to left, which means that it was going South, instead of North.

2. At the Denmark Strait Battle we see the Hood and PoW aiming their guns to the port side. Bismarck and Prince Eugen sail from right to left (again) and pointing their guns to starboard. This means (in the movie) that the British were North of Bismarck and sailing to the East while Bismarck was South and sailing to the West. This is a mistake because Bismarck's course was South Southwest coming from the North (they pointed their guns to the port side) and Hood and PoW were sailing West and pointing their guns to their starboard.

They never explained why Prinz Eugen left.
I will see it again tonight trying to detect more mistakes.
Where do the screenwriter bring up this idea of the Solent being blowed up?

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13 Jul 2004 15:14:13 - George G

Another error is when Luetjens informs the crew that they were going to conduct commerce warfare in the Atlantic: besides the silly Nazi rhetoric, it was Lindemann who actually informed the crew of their mission (according Mullenheim-Rechberg).

Another mistake occurs earlier, when the First Sea Lord complains about the fact that the Royal Navy is stretched too thinly to cover all the operations; from Alexandria to Gibraltar to Brest. The Admiralty knew that Gneisenau could not sail with Bismarck because of torpedo damage, and that Scharnhorst's troublesome machinery needed overhaul.
George G

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04 Jul 2004 20:32:27 - Max von Schuler

I always thought that coast watcher was in a fjord. He very well could have been on the north shore and see the Bismarck move that way.

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20 Aug 2004 01:39:31 - Paul Willson

I belive the "spy" was a Swede who spotted Bismarck in the Baltic. However having said that I think I have seen photos showing Bismarck passing Norwegian headlands but I may be in error.

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05 Jul 2004 19:28:29 - Karl Heidenreich

The Bismarck in the movie was moving as in high seas.

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11 Jul 2004 16:10:00 - Max von Schuler

Not the high seas, the initial scene where she leaves the Norwegian fjiord. If the coast watcher was on the northern coast of the fjiord, he would have seen the ship moving left to right. Then the fellow makes his heroic suicidal broadcast to London.

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12 Jul 2004 18:28:35 - Karl Heidenreich

It could well be that way. OK.

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14 Jul 2004 19:37:38 - Wayne

Almost every frame of the movie has an "error", from the role and attitude of the authentic characters (Lutjens as an aggressive, extroverted, ardent Nazi, for example), to the positions at various times of the ships, to the ships that participated and why they were deployed the way they were. The plotting error that almost let the Bismarck get away, for example, is not even mentioned even though it shaped the entire last two days of the action.

The movie was based upon, but never intended to be true to historical facts.... it was a historical romance, a cinematic equivalent to a historical novel, with the director taking license with the facts to produce a coherent story in two hours. I think it is one of the best movies of its kind ever made, but it had to invent the Kenneth Moore and Dana Wynter characters and byplay to sustain human interest. It was also limited in its special effects (no people on the decks...Hood's blowing up being not visually what Captain Leach and others testified to...) To me, the Bismarck action would be a great topic for a new TV miniseries using now affordable digital effects and modeling that could incorporate material from all the contemporary sources to make a great, and realistic, human and technological drama streching over a period of months, not the week of the chase. Using a real human story, such as Captain Lindemann's perspective, Baron VmR's, or Admiral Tovey's life, to tell the story would vbe a possibility. These are really fascinating people....living incredible events..two hours does not do it justice, nor does fiction.

I just do not think a two hour movie could do this story justice, and meet the standards of realism you all seem to demand, and still be a watchable, complete drama. This is a story with a lot of character development, hubris etc. It is just too much for a movie.

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24 Aug 2004 21:31:25 - Tankerace

I love this movie, it has to be my favorite war movie. However, there are 4 mistakes that I have not seen pointed out. 1, Bismarck was not found by a Norwegian spy. She was sighted in the Kattegat by the Swedish cruiser Gotland, and then this information was passed via spies to England.

The second one, Hood and Prince of Wales never fired broadsides at Bismarck. Admiral Holland, the commander of the British Force, tried to close the range as quickly as he could, because he knew that Hood couldn't stand up to punishing fire by Bismarck. At around 10 miles or so, the Hood is hit, and in the movie the actor playing Holland says "That was too close for comfort. Turn 20 degrees to starbord Captain." That hit was on the 4" QF ready-use ammo lockers by an 8" gun from Prinz Eugen. In reality, Holland ordered a turn to PORT, not starboard. It was just after this order that Bismarck's fifth salvo hit the Hood, and she blew up and broke in half.

It was only after this that the Prince of Wales turned and began using broadsides.

The third mistake is that when Prince of Wales retires, and Captain John Leach (the PoW's CO, who went down with her on Dec. 11, 1941) orders her to retreat and make smoke, we see her aft turret firing one final time. In reality, it tried to fire, but jammed. It was this that further convinced him that his ship was finished. After this, the Prince of Wales shadowed Bismarck with Suffolk and Norfolk, and when Prinz Eugen was detached, actually engaged salvos with her before hew turrets jammed once again.

The final mistake I will mention is that near the end of the movie, a shell hits the Bismarck's bridge, and kills Lutjens. A moment later, another hits that kills Mueller and Kapitan sur-see Lindemann. In reality, as Bismarck capsized, several survivors claimed to see Lindemann and his aide (Mueller perhaps?) on the bow, going down with the ship.

But, for a 1960's war movie, or any war movie, it is by far the best naval movie, with only the possible exception of Tora Tora Tora.

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10 Sep 2004 12:12:24 - F. Daniels

You forgot to mention one other "mistake" in the film. On the evening before Bismarck is surrounded by British capital ships, she is harried by destroyers and is shown scoring a direct hit on HMS Solent, a destroyer which was a complete fabrication. No such ship existed in the British fleet. The mistakes you mention can perhaps be forgiven as relatively minor points, but HMS Solent is an interpolation into the historical record for which there can be no excuse.

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08 Sep 2004 20:43:43 - Paul Hone

are these Documented as Real Mistakes? or just a small few saying these facts?
I am sure they said something else as they were hit!(cursing)
all this seems hard to tell as no one was there except the Now DEAD brave men!
and for the Germans well they too were in panic...I doubt that they saw what they saw except ....jumping from A BURNING HULK,
I think the movie added some links, to What might have been,
the spy was no doubt from sweden,
that at least says"Recognition" to the brave sweeds,
even the fact of the hood captain turning 20 degrees starbord, how many survived that were there to confirm?
i think the movie is fine....just like anything else it has a little addin's but the out comes are still the same,
same for the Admiralty staff fictional people added. Anyway I own the movie and think it is One of the best war time movies out there! at least it tells of a Great struggle at that Incredible time in our History.

Thanks

Paul

(I have a song/video I made called "You must sink the Bismarck" check it out on my site, a fast internet connection required)

http://www.paulhone.com/

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09 Oct 2004 17:22:15 - Peter Andersen

Bismarck and PE were first discovered by Danish fishermen when the German force passed through the Great Belt on the night of May 19-20th. Their message was relayed by courier overland to Copenhagen and then by boat over the Sound to Sweden (in May 1941 the Danish resistance had little radio communication with England). At 1300 hours on Tuesday May 20, the small Swedish cruiser H.M.S. Gotland sighted the German force and relayed by radio the message to the Swedish military headquarters in Stockholm, who broke the news to the British military attache. Later the German fleet was observed on at least 3 occasions by the Norwegian resistance as it sailed along the southern shore of Norway. They had radio equipment and informed England directly.

Peter Andersen

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26 Aug 2004 19:33:38 - Paul

It also has some nice footage of Vanguards turrets, and is that actually Victorious appearing as herself?. It is nice to see how well some of the movies that Esmond Knight appeared in are now regarded, Powell and Pressburgers films, are considered some of the best british films, particularly the Red Shoes, which Esmond Knight is in.

Paul

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25 Aug 2004 21:09:25 - thomas

As something of an interesting aside, to anyone who watches the movie in the near future--the actor that plays Captain Leach was Esmonde Knight who served on PoW during the battle with the Bismarck and suffered partial blindness as a result of the wounds he sustained in the air defence position.

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25 Aug 2004 21:26:05 - Tankerace

OMG.... you have got to be kidding. That is awsome! Was he aboard during the battle of the Denmark Strait and the battle of the coast of Malaya? Or did he transfer before PoW was sunk?

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25 Aug 2004 22:26:46 - thomas

Knight, who had been a successful stage actor before the war, was on board during the action with Bismarck and Prinz Eguen. He was blinded by the 38 cm shell which passed through the compass platform and AD station:

"Strangely, I just remember thinking that I was on the bridge and that we'd been hit by a shell that smashed straight through us and exploded over the other side.

"I felt myself sloshing around in the water and realised I was pinned down by dead bodies. People had been blown to bits – literally into fragments."

The stuff sloshing around may not have been just water of course.

Anyway, his injuries left him permanently blinded with only minimal ability to see a little bit of light with his right eye. He was of course retired from the service and later returned to stage, film, and tv. He had a wonderful ability to make a viewer think that he could see, when in fact he could not.

Knight passed away in 1987 at the age of 80.

For anyone that might be interested, the following is Esmond Knight's obituary.

http://www.forcez-survivors.org.uk/biog ... night.html

thomas

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24 Aug 2004 21:39:47 - Karl Heidenreich

The only movie (Hollywood movie at least) that tries to be honest with History is Tora, Tora, Tora. In a lesser sense probably we have "A bridge so far" and "Midway". In this three the Japanese and the Germans are not protayed like Colonel Klink and both sides of the story are tried to be told. "The desser fox" and "Patton" are two other very good historical war movies. "Blue Max" is fiction but very good fiction.

"Sink the Bismarck" is OK. As a matter of fact with all it's mistakes, more than only four, is pretty good. I like Lindemann shouting: "Target leading ship, stand by to open fire!"

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25 Aug 2004 04:20:38 - steve

The Japanese directed portions of Tora are excellent. Esp. the opening scenes on the HIJMS Nagato. **** Four stars for me!

Sink the Bismarck ***
Midway ** (recycled some clips from Tora)
Private Ryan ****
Cameron's Bismarck **** (Best Doc.)

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01 Nov 2004 21:36:29 - Adm. Gurita

Hi all,

True, "Tora Tora Tora" is best of the lot [also true: old Adm. Gurita displays a list towards the Japanese side].

And that HIJMS Nagato of the opening scenes was REAL!! The Japanese built a 90% model of the real thing. Go figure. It was destroyed by accident later, sadly...

Also true: in that entire discussion line about the relevance of BB vs BB discussions that I just read, the old, old bias once more reared its ugly head: another HIJMS battleship class [= other than Nagato] was not mentioned even once. And you'd have needed USS Iowa or one of her three sisters to even remotely have had a chance against Her or Her sister...

... and She still is the most-sold model warship worldwide at that! Mmm...

YAMATO Banzai!

Adm. Gurita

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04 Sep 2004 23:13:24 - Janius

Two other Naval war movies always effected me as excellently done...

Battle Hell (US Title- HMS Amethyst in Yangtse River during Comminist take over of China-1949?)

San Dimetro London (again, the US Title) absolutely terrific movie, even though the war scenes are minimal.

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25 Aug 2004 06:21:49 - len

Apocolypse Now has my vote for best war movie.

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27 Aug 2004 04:22:10 - paul

Full metal jacket for me -nt- (n/t)

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28 Aug 2004 21:00:26 - steve

Das Boot. Don't forget this great movie! Ranks high on my list.

[PM Collins]

I'm watching the movie right now, and all of these mistakes in the movie as told by the mebers are accurate, but what else can you from a western propaganda movie. Remember history is always written by the victors. The only great WWII movie as seen from both sides is the Longest Day. Which is how my Bismarck screenplay is written, it tells the story of the Bismarck's nine day sortie from both sides, that was the only I thought to do it. I hope all the Bismarck fans like it. My agent is negoticiating with Wolfgang Peterson to direct. It should be about 3 hours and hopefully be out by May 2006, to coincide with Bismarck's 65 anniversary.