Leanders

[RF]

Read dunmunros post again - one after turret was removed on the refit, the number of six inch guns were reduced from eight to six.

[maxs75]

Ah, OK.
Many british cruisers had one turret removed in late war: some County, Orion and Southamptons.

Max

[dunmunro]

Many cruisers did surrender a main armament turret, but in this case Achilles also had X turret destroyed by the bomb hit.

[RF]

Given the time this was done, 1943/44 onwards, it was presumably carried out against a backdrop of a now negligable surface ship threat. The River Plate battle would have been very different if Ajax and Achilles had only six guns each....

[culverin]

5 Leander class were completed for the British RN, followed by the 3 Improved Leander or Amphion class, which were all duly transferred to Australia as the Perth class, despite Sydney ex Phaeton being transferred in build.

All 8 ships had identical armament as completed, but deeper down there were significant differences in their machinery which meant the visual differences between the Leanders with their distinctive single funnel and the Amphions, with twin funnels meant their machinery arrangements were....
The traditional British in line machinery of BR, BR, BR, ER, ER ( * ) used in the Leanders
The American style unit system BR, ER, BR, ER ( * ) was deployed in the Amphions, as in the smaller Arethusa class of 4 ships.
( * ) note above BR - Boiler Room. ER - Engine Room or Turbine Room.
Apparently, the unit system needed more men to operate and took up more space.

However, both classes seemed to have crew sizes of 570 officers and men, as private ships in peacetime.
Come 1939 and the commencement of hostilities in Europe each ships crew would be increased by c 10 - 15% for war manning. New lighter weapons and electronics would duly add to what were already fairly cramped ships and the demands of offensive and defensive measures.

HMAS Sydney was lost 19 Nov 1941 with 645 complement.
HMS Neptune was lost 19 Dec 1941 with 764 complement.
HMAS Perth was lost 1 March 1942 with 681 complement.
all within scarcely 3 months of each other.

What is difficult to equate is the huge variations in ships complements at times of their losses.
How does Neptune need those extra 119 men over Sydney, although she was the flag of Force K when sunk. That may account for 12 or so but an extra 18% is a very large number by any account. She also had Royal Marines on board, but did they man a turret or have another task. Sydney still had 4 single 4", a small saving and possibly fewer radars installed, but more in the machinery department.

These numbers mean so much more when all on Sydney perished and Neptune had her sole survivor.

[Paul L]

looking at the following site by 1943 the

http://navypedia.org/ships/uk/brit_cr_leander.htm

The list of alterations and refits are listed. By Jan 1943 Ajax had

Prewar= 4 x 2 - 152/50 BL Mk XXIII, 4 x 2 - 102/45 QF Mk XVI, 4 x 1 - 47/40 Hotchkiss Mk I, 3 x 4 - 12.7/62, 2 х 4 - 533 TT, 2 (later 1) aircraft (Fairey III, Osprey, Seal), 1 catapult D-I-L

5/1941, Ajax: - 1 catapult with seaplane; + 1 x 4 - 40/39 2pdr QF Mk VIII

early 1942, Ajax: + 6 x 1 - 20/70 Oerlikon Mk II/IV

mid-1942, Ajax: - 3 x 4 - 12.7/62; + 1 x 4 - 40/39 2pdr QF Mk VIII, 3 x 1 - 20/70 Oerlikon Mk II/IV, type 272, 284 radars

So by Jan 1943 HMS AJAX looks like

4 x 2 - 152/50 BL Mk XXIII
4 x 2 - 102/45 QF Mk XVI
2 x 4 - 40/39 2pdr QF Mk VIII
9 x 1 - 20/70 Oerlikon Mk II/IV
2 х 4 - 533 TT, 2 (later 1 possible to offset all the extra AAA?)
type 279 radar & type 272, 284 radars