Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

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Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

Postby celticmarine10 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:56 pm

Can anyone clue me in as to the current condition of the wreck of the Admiral Graf Spee?
Thanks- :D
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee

Postby lwd » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:27 pm

I think there was talk of raising her not long ago. Heavily silted in from what I recall reading.
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee

Postby celticmarine10 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:54 am

That would be interesting. Is she completely underwater do you know?
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee

Postby lwd » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:33 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cru ... ee#Salvage
states the tip of one mast is above water.
Here's a link which mentions the plan of raising her:
http://www.lummifilm.com/grafspee/about.html
date's to 2003.
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee

Postby RF » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:29 am

I personally think the wreck should be left as it is. These looters are only around to make money out of something that doesn't properly belong to them.
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee

Postby celticmarine10 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:45 pm

RF wrote:I personally think the wreck should be left as it is. These looters are only around to make money out of something that doesn't properly belong to them.

I agree! I feel that she should be left in peace, and further salvaging banned.

Though I don't support the plans to raise her, the website had the information I needed. Thank You!
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee

Postby lwd » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:08 pm

There's a difference abtween salvage what's left of her and rasing her for a museum ship. I certainly wouldn't want to see any more salvage operations. Raising her his more problematic. If there is a good chance for success and adequate funding to clean her up and keep her up is available then I would see this as a positive thing. Otherwise I wouldn't support it.
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee

Postby marcelo_malara » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:18 am

Hi guys. I have sailed close to the wreck, is near Montevideo port. The water is not very deep there, may be around 8 m. The superestructure has been cut, so there only remains the hull and the main turrets, some of the secondary has been removed.
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

Postby RF » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:44 am

Sad to say, the wreck has been picked at, looted and pillaged for the last seventy odd years and it still goes on.
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

Postby Rob Wood » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:28 pm

I can't make up my mind about this. On the one hand, I don't believe war graves should be disturbed, but on the other hand, Graf Spee isn't technically a war grave, because he was scuttled, and not under fire at the time. On the other hand, he's sort of a war grave, because his captain, Hans Langsdorff, committed suicide because of the scuttling.

In the bigger picture of marine archaeology and conservation, though, simply leaving historical steel warships on the bottom to rust into nothing doesn't do anybody any good. At least if salvaged artifacts, equipment and armament are saved and on display in museums where new generations can learn something from this period of history, something good can come of it. On the other hand, if it all ends up in private collections, sold to the highest bidder, that's not good either.

It's not easy to form a clear opinion on it, and I'm glad I'm not the one who has to decide Graf Spee's fate.


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Re: Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

Postby RF » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:50 pm

For me its a matter of motives in disturbing the wreck, whether a grave or not. If it is done purely for research and to advance our knowledge then OK, and if it is a war grave observe but don't touch.

But if it is being done for the purpose of financial gain then it is a definate no.
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

Postby Rob Wood » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:55 pm

I share your feelings, but I think we need to be realistic about it. Unfortunately, these days if there is no financial benefit to the salvage firms, they won't commit the resources. Mostly, some sort of compromise has to be negotiated. You can say, "Well, then just leave it alone, in that case," but all over the world, shipwrecks are disintegrating at an alarming rate. Some due to natural forces, but many others due to drag nets and looting. Undersea archaeological remains are suffering from looters, just as sites on dry land are, and it's a grim race to see whether museums or private collectors get the artifacts first.

If there is not an International effort to systematically protect, excavate and salvage shipwrecks, they are all going to disappear, one way or another, and we will be left without any of the historical benefits that all of us should be able to enjoy. What good does it do to have a wreck like Graf Spee slowly sink into the mud, or be looted by unofficial and unmonitored treasure seekers? The problem is that there is not enough money available in the world to salvage these wrecks properly, and the only way I can see to save anything for the sake of history is for museums and nations to work with commercial enterprises to beet the looters to the punch. And that means compromising so that the commercial enterprises gain something from their efforts. Sad to say that things have degenerated to this point, but that's just the way it is.

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Re: Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

Postby RF » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:08 am

Rob Wood wrote: The problem is that there is not enough money available in the world to salvage these wrecks properly,
Rob


As a voter and a taxpayer I would beg to differ. The amount of money that Britain wastes on bankrolling the EU could easily pay for some of the recovery work of these wrecks to preserve them from complete destruction!
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

Postby Rob Wood » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:05 am

Just what I said: There's not enough money available.
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Re: Admiral Graf Spee Current Condition

Postby RF » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:56 am

I'm sure there is money available for anything the politicians want to spend it on. The British budget deficit doesn't count for example when it comes to dropping some bombs and missiles on Libya......
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