Precisions on operation BERLIN

[Dave Saxton]

BTW, I am not saying that a clash with Home Fleet was inevitable if German radars had failed. I was just thinking that it was possible (if radar failed AND British lookouts performed better, and ...).

It was certainly possible. Look at North Cape. In that case Scharnhorst had lost its forward radar(s) to battle damage and could not see in the forward sectors with radar. If this was not the case then Scharnhorst would probably have never the let Duke of York close the range. However another factor is, in 1943 the British had effective search radar, but the Home fleet in Jan 1941 did not. Would the British be able to keep contact and force a clash with out radar? Probably not.

[Francis Marliere]

"Would the British be able to keep contact and force a clash with out radar? Probably not."

Well that makes an interesting scenario for wargaming because the Home Fleet have superior firepower and armor but is too slow to catch S&G. The only way to win is to have light forces taking risks and slow down the German BC.

Best,

Francis Marliere

[RF]

The Home Fleet collectively were too slow, but not individual ships like Hood, Repulse or the newly commissioned KGV. But even then they would have to be in the right place at the right time.

Smaller vessels - cruisers, destroyers have to contend with eighteen 11 inch guns and twenty four 5.9 inch - a formidable array.

[paulcadogan]

Any way you look at it, without the Twins being effectively slowed, the Home Fleet's ships did not have a prayer as far as apprehending them. Admiral Forbes, in his assessment of the duel off Stromvaer said it himself - the RN had no capital ships capable of catching Gneisenau and Scharnhorst.

The reconstructed Renown, though lighter, with better machinery could not attain the 32 knots of her youth, maxing out at 30. Hood and Repulse with their aged engines and overweight state maxed out at 29 and 27 respectively, the new KGV's at 28.5. The Nelson & Rodney aren't even worth considering unless the twins were virtually immobilized ! (In the event under consideraton the Nelson "worked up to 21 knots"! Must have been frustrating - all that firepower and little ability to bring it to the enemy!)

So to me, whatever wargame scenario you develop, with Nelson & Repulse at the core of the Home Fleet, the Twins get away, beating off any attack of light forces (there wasn't even an 8-inch cruiser present) or giving any shadowers the slip in the darkness. The only possibility would be one or two aircraft carriers with sufficient Swordfish for a more sustained attack and hope for a very lucky hit.

[Francis Marliere]

Well, in poor visibility (6.5 nm), the cruisers and destroyers have a chance to put a torpedo on a battlecruiser. It's a dangerous buiseness but it can be done (with skill and luck).

[RF]

Indeed. They could also be hit by submarines and also torpedo bombers....