USS Indianapolis

From the Washington Naval Treaty to the end of the Second World War.
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Karl Heidenreich
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USS Indianapolis

Post by Karl Heidenreich »

Let´s talk about the Indianapolis and Captain Charles B. McVay III. There are many, including the Indy survivors, that believe McVay is innocent of his ship´s fate (I´m included). But a lot of people, including a Navy Board of Inquiry full of admirals, believe he commited negligence by not doing zig zag and, thus, allowing the Indy being torpedoed by I-58.
Also, a couple of years ago a high school boy took upon himself the work to clean McVay court martial sentence and, as many said, he achieve it.
Quite a story, ah?
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Gary
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Post by Gary »

Hi Karl.

Of the top of my head, I believe that one of the main cock ups was that the USN took so long to realise that she was missing.
I'll read up on the topic and post again later
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Gary
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Post by Gary »

The heavy cruiser USS Indianapolis was steaming along at 17 knots on its way to the Philippines after delivering the atomic bomb to Tinian Island.. the very bomb that will be dropped on the Japanese city of Hiroshima. Of a crew of over 1,100 men, approximately 900 survived the two torpedo strikes and entered the warm Pacific waters. For 5 days and 4 nights, these survivors endured the tropical sun, thirst, hunger, and worst of all, a mass shark attack. Of the over 900 men that went into the water, only 317 survived.
God created the world in 6 days.........and on the 7th day he built the Scharnhorst
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Gary
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Post by Gary »

It is important to note at the outset that vital information pertinent to determining responsibility for the loss of the Indianapolis was not made public until long after the subsequent court-martial and conviction of Captain McVay. U.S. intelligence using a top secret operation labeled ULTRA had broken the Japanese code and was aware that two Japanese submarines, including the I-58, were operating in the path of the Indianapolis.

This information was classified and not made available to either the court-martial board or to Captain McVay's defense counsel. It did not become known until the early 1990s that - despite knowledge of the danger in its path - naval authorities at Guam had sent the Indianapolis into harm's way without any warning, refusing her captain's request for a destroyer escort, and leading him to believe his route was safe.


Captain McVay's request for a destroyer escort was denied despite the fact that no capital ship lacking anti-submarine detection equipment, such as the Indianapolis, had made this transit across the Philippine Sea without an escort during the entire war.

http://www.ussindianapolis.org/
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Karl Heidenreich
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

Gary, you´re right. US Naval Inteligence knew about the danger about enemy submarines along the path of Indianapolis. Days before a Japanese sub did attack another US vessel nearby. Even, they knew about the I-58 in particular.
McVay did request an antisub escort and was denied. This was unusual because any sized ship that traveled along that route was given that kind of assistance.
So, if their bosses don´t even believe that a Sub threat was plausible then why will he (McVay) had to worry about?
The news about the Indy´s sinking and the court of inquery against McVay were published on US paper the same day the war was declared over. Curious, isn´t it?
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Ulrich Rudofsky
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Post by Ulrich Rudofsky »

Has anyone read: "Left for Dead: A Young Man's Search for Justice for the USS Indianapolis", by Pete Nelson? Also, according to a US Naval Institute PROCEEDINGS advertising there are two seemingly self-published books by LCDR L. Peter Wren, Wren Enterprises, 1011 Ridgetop Road, Richmond, VA, 23229-6733: "Those in Peril on the Sea", by USS Indianpolis Rescue Officer L. Peter Wren. It supposedly "tells the rest of the story [as told by] LCDR Wren who was a boat officer helping to pull 152 of the 317 survivors from the sea". Also LCDR Wren wrote the book "I was there". Has anyone read these and formed an opinion?
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Karl Heidenreich
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

I read "In Harm´s Way" by Doug Stanton. In a chapter he makes the statement that when the Indy fires her main guns the ship lifts and moves sideways! :D
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Ulrich Rudofsky
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Post by Ulrich Rudofsky »

Naval architects will tell you that is not really so.
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Coyote850
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Post by Coyote850 »

The Navy wanted a scapegoat for the loss of so many men so late in the war. They handed up the career and eventually the life of McVay, (guilt later led him to suicide.) The court martial of McVay is utterly disgusting and a very deep black mark non US Naval history. To bring in the captain of the I-58 to testify was astonishing. None of the survivors ever blamed McVay, in fact they stood by him and loved him dearly. But some families of those who died never let him have any peace. He constantly recieved hate mail from relatives of sailors who died, and he politely responded to each one. He felt that if it made the greiving family feel better by blaming him, then accepting the blame was the least he could do for those men he lost. Very, very sad.
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RF
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Re: USS Indianapolis

Post by RF »

Would the ship have survived by zig-zagging? The answer to that can never be known, but if a destroyer escort is refused the commander must be aware of submarine threat (otherwise why ask for destroyer escort?) so failure to zig-zag would be an eye-opener.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: USS Indianapolis

Post by Karl Heidenreich »

RF:

Tha Japanese sub skipper was brought to McVay´s Cour Martial and when asked about precisely that (if zig zag would have saved Indy?) he answered that "NO". McVay, on the other hand, was not given a destroyer escort because for the brass it was unnecessary so, I suposse, he believed that there was no real sub threat.

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RF
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Re: USS Indianapolis

Post by RF »

I am familiar with this hearing - the point I was making is that doing a zigzag gives you a better chance of avoiding torpedoes, it won't obviously give you complete immunity, but it does make your position a bit more secure.

The Jap commander can say a zigzag wouldn't save the ship - but he wasn't forced to prove it, in which case we don't know whether he was right or wrong. As I understand it the Jap subs mission was to attack with Kaiten suicide boats, and this commander did at least have the gumption to read the situation correctly and launch a conventional attack.

Your last sentence does remind me of another ship commander who thought that there would be no submarine threat to his ship, so didn't bother to zigzag, again with lethal results - Kapitan Gunther Gumprich of the hilfskreuzer Michel, sunk by Tarpon 60 miles off the coast of Japan. In this case also there was no rescue, no escort - because the Japanese simply couldn't be bothered to help their German allies.
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