Force Z

[alecsandros]

I did use the sources that you used, but came up with different numbers-use an average of of the altitudes.

... You should use the numbers for normally loaded fighters. The example above is overload fighter for F4F3.

[KevinD]

Given the Brewsters woeful reputation with the Allies, how does one explain its - dare I say - rather exemplary performance record in the hands of the Finns circa the same time frame then? If it was such a bad aircraft, then it could only have been their - the Finns - 'sisu'! (For those not familiar with the Finnish language, best I can translate that word is "spunk or grit", mixed of course with a double helping of 'iron balls'.)

[dunmunro]

I did use the sources that you used, but came up with different numbers-use an average of of the altitudes.

... You should use the numbers for normally loaded fighters. The example above is overload fighter for F4F3.

Here's the "official" numbers for both aircraft:

http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F2A-3_ ... r_1942.pdf

http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F4F-3_ ... t_1942.pdf

as you can see "officially" the F2A-3 outclimbed and out ran (under ~15k ft) the F4F-3.

The reality is that neither aircraft could match these numbers.

[dunmunro]

Given the Brewsters woeful reputation with the Allies, how does one explain its - dare I say - rather exemplary performance record in the hands of the Finns circa the same time frame then? If it was such a bad aircraft, then it could only have been their - the Finns - 'sisu'! (For those not familiar with the Finnish language, best I can translate that word is "spunk or grit", mixed of course with a double helping of 'iron balls'.)

How do you spell O-V-E-R C-L-A-I-M-I-N-G?

Honestly, I haven't look at Finnish claims but exaggeration seems par for the course for most AFs.

[Steve Crandell]

Given the Brewsters woeful reputation with the Allies, how does one explain its - dare I say - rather exemplary performance record in the hands of the Finns circa the same time frame then? If it was such a bad aircraft, then it could only have been their - the Finns - 'sisu'! (For those not familiar with the Finnish language, best I can translate that word is "spunk or grit", mixed of course with a double helping of 'iron balls'.)

How do you spell O-V-E-R C-L-A-I-M-I-N-G?

Honestly, I haven't look at Finnish claims but exaggeration seems par for the course for most AFs.

The Finns were not fighting Zeros.

[KevinD]

How do you spell O-V-E-R C-L-A-I-M-I-N-G? Honestly, I haven't look at Finnish claims but exaggeration seems par for the course for most AFs.

You spell it like this - "Facts don't cease to exist just because they are ignored" or maybe even "The highest form of ignorance is when someone rejects something they (seem to) know nothing about".

Enough said.

[KevinD]

The Finns were not fighting Zeros.

No, but the were fighting against overwhelming odds! And still kicked the Russkies arse (in Brewsters) for quite some time.

[alecsandros]

I did use the sources that you used, but came up with different numbers-use an average of of the altitudes.

... You should use the numbers for normally loaded fighters. The example above is overload fighter for F4F3.

Here's the "official" numbers for both aircraft:

http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F2A-3_ ... r_1942.pdf

http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F4F-3_ ... t_1942.pdf

as you can see "officially" the F2A-3 outclimbed and out ran (under ~15k ft) the F4F-3.

The reality is that neither aircraft could match these numbers.

True,
Still the Wildcat had a large advantage in ceiling, and performance at combat altitudes (tipically > 14000 ft)

[dunmunro]

How do you spell O-V-E-R C-L-A-I-M-I-N-G? Honestly, I haven't look at Finnish claims but exaggeration seems par for the course for most AFs.

You spell it like this - "Facts don't cease to exist just because they are ignored" or maybe even "The highest form of ignorance is when someone rejects something they (seem to) know nothing about".

Enough said.

According to Wikipedia, the Finns claimed a 26 to 1 kill ratio for their 296 mph Buffalos, which is better than that claimed for the 109 or 190...so yes, colour me skeptical.