... You should use the numbers for normally loaded fighters. The example above is overload fighter for F4F3.aurora wrote:I did use the sources that you used, but came up with different numbers-use an average of of the altitudes.
Force Z
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Re: Force Z
Re: Force Z
Given the Brewsters woeful reputation with the Allies, how does one explain its - dare I say - rather exemplary performance record in the hands of the Finns circa the same time frame then? If it was such a bad aircraft, then it could only have been their - the Finns - 'sisu'! (For those not familiar with the Finnish language, best I can translate that word is "spunk or grit", mixed of course with a double helping of 'iron balls'.)
Re: Force Z
Here's the "official" numbers for both aircraft:alecsandros wrote:... You should use the numbers for normally loaded fighters. The example above is overload fighter for F4F3.aurora wrote:I did use the sources that you used, but came up with different numbers-use an average of of the altitudes.
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F2A-3_ ... r_1942.pdf
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F4F-3_ ... t_1942.pdf
as you can see "officially" the F2A-3 outclimbed and out ran (under ~15k ft) the F4F-3.
The reality is that neither aircraft could match these numbers.
Re: Force Z
How do you spell O-V-E-R C-L-A-I-M-I-N-G?KevinD wrote:Given the Brewsters woeful reputation with the Allies, how does one explain its - dare I say - rather exemplary performance record in the hands of the Finns circa the same time frame then? If it was such a bad aircraft, then it could only have been their - the Finns - 'sisu'! (For those not familiar with the Finnish language, best I can translate that word is "spunk or grit", mixed of course with a double helping of 'iron balls'.)
Honestly, I haven't look at Finnish claims but exaggeration seems par for the course for most AFs.
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Re: Force Z
The Finns were not fighting Zeros.dunmunro wrote:How do you spell O-V-E-R C-L-A-I-M-I-N-G?KevinD wrote:Given the Brewsters woeful reputation with the Allies, how does one explain its - dare I say - rather exemplary performance record in the hands of the Finns circa the same time frame then? If it was such a bad aircraft, then it could only have been their - the Finns - 'sisu'! (For those not familiar with the Finnish language, best I can translate that word is "spunk or grit", mixed of course with a double helping of 'iron balls'.)
Honestly, I haven't look at Finnish claims but exaggeration seems par for the course for most AFs.
Re: Force Z
You spell it like this - "Facts don't cease to exist just because they are ignored" or maybe even "The highest form of ignorance is when someone rejects something they (seem to) know nothing about".dunmunro wrote:How do you spell O-V-E-R C-L-A-I-M-I-N-G? Honestly, I haven't look at Finnish claims but exaggeration seems par for the course for most AFs.
Enough said.
Re: Force Z
No, but the were fighting against overwhelming odds! And still kicked the Russkies arse (in Brewsters) for quite some time.Steve Crandell wrote:The Finns were not fighting Zeros.
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Re: Force Z
True,dunmunro wrote:Here's the "official" numbers for both aircraft:alecsandros wrote:... You should use the numbers for normally loaded fighters. The example above is overload fighter for F4F3.aurora wrote:I did use the sources that you used, but came up with different numbers-use an average of of the altitudes.
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F2A-3_ ... r_1942.pdf
http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/F4F-3_ ... t_1942.pdf
as you can see "officially" the F2A-3 outclimbed and out ran (under ~15k ft) the F4F-3.
The reality is that neither aircraft could match these numbers.
Still the Wildcat had a large advantage in ceiling, and performance at combat altitudes (tipically > 14000 ft)
Re: Force Z
According to Wikipedia, the Finns claimed a 26 to 1 kill ratio for their 296 mph Buffalos, which is better than that claimed for the 109 or 190...so yes, colour me skeptical.KevinD wrote:You spell it like this - "Facts don't cease to exist just because they are ignored" or maybe even "The highest form of ignorance is when someone rejects something they (seem to) know nothing about".dunmunro wrote:How do you spell O-V-E-R C-L-A-I-M-I-N-G? Honestly, I haven't look at Finnish claims but exaggeration seems par for the course for most AFs.
Enough said.