HMS Glorious - documentary

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paulcadogan
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HMS Glorious - documentary

Postby paulcadogan » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:32 pm

Hi all,

I'm wondering how many of you have seen this documentary done in 1997. Just came across it today and I found it very interesting indeed.

If you haven't seen it, and especially if you don't know the details of the surrounding controversy - official version vs. the stories of those who were there, have a watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yAahSUiXt4

Paul
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man

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Dave Saxton
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Re: HMS Glorious - documentary

Postby Dave Saxton » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:31 pm

Thanks. I had not seen this UK documentary before. Very interesting.

The writer(s) have a momentary lapse of logic when they wrote into the narrative to paraphrase: " ...so Devonshire left the Glorious to its fate instead of rushing to its support.." What could it do against two battleships and another heavy cruiser assuming Cunningham was fully aware of the situation? Surely it would have been destroyed as well.

The testimony of the German witness' and the Glorious survivors as to the Scharnhorst's shooting; that the first two salvos were just short and long and the third scored hits are consistent throughout. This indicates that they fired a 400 meter bracket and their solution was dead on. The range on opening fire was 26km or 28,444 yards.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: HMS Glorious - documentary

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:55 pm

Hello everybody,

I have worked personally years ago with the son of Capt Barker ( HMS Ardent ) on reconstructing for another website the whole story, with the help of the GLARAC ( GLorious ARdent ACasta ) association material, ... plus the German material too.

Here my work for you to be correlated with the above documentary well known to me of course :

http://www.scharnhorst-class.dk/scharnh ... njuno.html

This is the reason why I was not surprised at all about what has been done by the RN Admiralty on the Denmark Strait, ... as well as on other occasions.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: HMS Glorious - documentary

Postby Alberto Virtuani » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:16 am

@Paul Cadogan:
hi Paul,
thanks for this very interesting link !

@Antonio Bonomi:
hi Antonio,
while the article you referenced about Glorious is very well done and mostly in sync with the documentary hypothesis, I don't understand why you say that this work is yours..... The copyright is John Assmussen and your name only appears (together with his one) on the maps. :wink:

Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

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Re: HMS Glorious - documentary

Postby Cag » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:00 am

Hi All,

Thanks Paul for posting that, it does show that war is a dirty business sometimes. I, although not personally involved, have had experience of a military cover up and the records are restricted for a pre determined time usually outside of the lifespan of any relative or interested party and any attempt at a re-opening of the case results in a 'Brick Wall'.

Unfortunately with there being so few survivors, the secrecy of the Devonshire's mission and the taking of her operators radio log, and the secrecy behind Bletchley Park any concrete evidence was an easy thing to cover up, but no doubt rumour persisted. We also see this in the case of HMS Barham, her loss being unknown to all until much later in the war.

The Denmark Strait battle is a little different in that the whole fleet eventually knew of the shadowing of Bismarck by Norfolk and Suffolk,they knew of the loss of HMS Hood, the PoW taking damage and turning away, and the signals recieved during the battle. Within days the whole world knew the story and therefore normal restrictions of military inquiry records of her loss were put in place, which makes it hard to cover up something that is already widely known?

Best wishes
Cag.

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: HMS Glorious - documentary

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Sun May 08, 2016 8:06 pm

Hello everybody,

@ Alberto Virtuani,

you wrote :

Hi Antonio, while the article you referenced about Glorious is very well done and mostly in sync with the documentary hypothesis, I don't understand why you say that this work is yours..... The copyright is John Assmussen and your name only appears (together with his one) on the maps. :wink: Bye, Alberto


Alberto, Mr. John Asmussen is well known to be a plagiarist :

http://www.kbismarck.com/copy001.html

http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 625.0.html

That article about the Glorious, together with the Denmark Strait, the North Cape battle on that forum written by me in origin, ... are just some example on the internet website, ... we have also books almost entirely done using somebody else material with no recognition to the original writer/researcher of the information, ... like the Bismarck and the KM Camouflages ... etc etc

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/vi ... 80#p690780

@ Cag,

I see your points, ... but still remain the fact that either with a complete or with a partial cover up, ... in one way or the other ... the Royal Navy did modify the events and the declarations were not corresponding to the truth.

Now, after so many years, ...we are getting close to the truth and the reality is a lot different compared to the war declarations and the books written for many years after.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: HMS Glorious - documentary

Postby Antonio Bonomi » Mon May 16, 2016 7:46 pm

Hello everybody,

@ Alberto Virtuani,

you wrote :

Hi Antonio, while the article you referenced about Glorious is very well done and mostly in sync with the documentary hypothesis, I don't understand why you say that this work is yours..... The copyright is John Assmussen and your name only appears (together with his one) on the maps. :wink: Bye, Alberto


Alberto, Mr. John Asmussen is well known to be a plagiarist :

http://www.kbismarck.com/copy001.html

http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/in ... 625.0.html

That article about the Glorious, together with the Denmark Strait, the North Cape battle on that forum written by me in origin, ... are just some example of his " plagiarism " on the Internet websites.

We have also examples of his " plagiarism " on books almost entirely done using somebody else material with no recognition to the original writer/researcher of the information, ... like the Bismarck and the KM Camouflages ... etc etc etc

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/vi ... 80#p690780

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

dunmunro
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Re: HMS Glorious - documentary

Postby dunmunro » Sat May 21, 2016 9:01 pm

Cag wrote:Hi All,

Thanks Paul for posting that, it does show that war is a dirty business sometimes. I, although not personally involved, have had experience of a military cover up and the records are restricted for a pre determined time usually outside of the lifespan of any relative or interested party and any attempt at a re-opening of the case results in a 'Brick Wall'.

Unfortunately with there being so few survivors, the secrecy of the Devonshire's mission and the taking of her operators radio log, and the secrecy behind Bletchley Park any concrete evidence was an easy thing to cover up, but no doubt rumour persisted. We also see this in the case of HMS Barham, her loss being unknown to all until much later in the war.

The Denmark Strait battle is a little different in that the whole fleet eventually knew of the shadowing of Bismarck by Norfolk and Suffolk,they knew of the loss of HMS Hood, the PoW taking damage and turning away, and the signals recieved during the battle. Within days the whole world knew the story and therefore normal restrictions of military inquiry records of her loss were put in place, which makes it hard to cover up something that is already widely known?

Best wishes
Cag.


It seems likely that the info regarding receipt by Devonshire of a radio message was suppressed. OTOH, no other RN ship received the message nor did, IIRC, the KM's B-Dienst section.


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