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German helped the destruction of Tirpitz ?

Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:11 pm
by Dave Saxton
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/d ... 045177.ece

The article is pay walled, so here are the basics:

It is claimed that a German at one of the coastal radar stations was working for the enemy, so he mis-directed Luftwaffe fighters so they would not intercept the British bombers and also delayed sending warnings on to the battleship. Investigation into these claims found a July 1945 document that indicated that he was indeed associated with the Norwegian Resistance.

Also during the air raids against the battleship while at Kaa Fjord, warnings from the coastal radars were so delayed that in some cases the radars on the battleship detected the aircraft before the warnings were received aboard the battleship, raising the question if a similar thing occurred then-assuming the claims are correct.

Re: German helped the destruction of Tirpitz ?

Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:01 am
by alecsandros
Interesting find !

I once stumbled upon some info on the Luftwaffe unit assigned to protect Tirpitz. It was commanded by Heinrich Ehrler.
Here are the details , from Wiki:

"Sinking of the Tirpitz

On 12 November 1944 the RAF launched its final raid against the battleship Tirpitz. Avro Lancaster bombers from 617 and 9 squadrons were sent to Håkøya a little west of Tromsø where the Tirpitz was based.

[Heinrich ] Ehrler was in command of 9./JG 5 at Fliegerhorst Bardufoss with 12 operational Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A-3s. The Staffel was at 10 minutes' readiness status due to the continuing pressure of British bombers in the Tromsø area. Ehrler's unit was scrambled airborne, but he received conflicting messages as to the enemy aircraft location and course. Some reports claimed Alta was the target area, others indicated Bodø.[8] When it finally became clear that the target was the Tirpitz, it was too late for the fighters to intercept, and the Tirpitz was destroyed with much loss of life.

After this unsuccessful action, Ehrler faced a court martial hearing in Oslo on the grounds of his not having understood the seriousness of the attack. Evidence was presented that supported the contention that his unit had failed to respond to requests from the Kriegsmarine for help. Ehrler was found guilty. He was relieved of command, demoted and sentenced to three years in prison. Ehrler had been recommended for the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords prior to the disaster, but the award was not approved.[9]

Walter Schuck, one of his junior officers, appealed to Reichskommissar Josef Terboven.[10] On 12 January 1945 Terboven hand-delivered Schuck's affidavit in support of Ehrler to Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring, Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe. Further investigations and testimonies indicated that the aircrews did not know that the Tirpitz had been moved to the new location at Håkøya a couple of weeks earlier, and Heinrich Ehrler was a convenient scapegoat for the failure to protect Tirpitz.[11] The investigation concluded the reason for the failure was poor communication between the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe.[12] Ehrler was exonerated. Shortly afterward, the Führer HQ announced Ehrler's release and return to front-line service, where he would have the chance to "rehabilitate himself."[10] Ehrler's sentence was commuted and his loss of rank rescinded. He was reassigned to an Me 262 fighter squadron in Germany.[13]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_ ... he_Tirpitz

Re: German helped the destruction of Tirpitz ?

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:46 pm
by RF
I have heard this story in a TV documentary on the final raids on Tirpitz. There may be some truth in this, given that by November 1944 it would be obvious that Nazi Germany was, to use the German slang ''kaput'' - it would be obvious in a relatively quiet backwater that Norway was at that time, with no land fighting (9except on the Murmansk front) where the occupation forces had little to do and plenty of time to quietly think. Thoughts of ingratiating themselves with the local population who are likely to have the upper hand in the following spring when Germany is finally crushed is likely to have appealed to some.....

At that time Tirpitz was militarily worthless - immobilised not just by fuel shortages but by damage from previous attempts to destroy the ship. Its threat was theoretical, but still the ship presented a prestige target.

Interesting that this theatre was one where the Luftwaffe still retained effective strength

Re: German helped the destruction of Tirpitz ?

Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:44 pm
by Antonio Bonomi
Hello everybody,

before believing on anything you may find about that raid, ... I strongly suggest you to read carefully the official accounts and look at the flight plan and track the Lancaster flew to arrive in Tromso, ... the same occurred for the Kaafjord before.

Surely there was any possible try to use he Norwegian underground dgents help, ... surely there was a radar jamming and a false direction communicated, ... it has been more complicated that somebody thinks ... :think:

Bye Antonio :D

Re: German helped the destruction of Tirpitz ?

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:46 am
by RF
This is why ''complications'' such as the subject of this thread arise. It particulary benefits conspiracy theorists and people who can make money by stirring things up.

Now I am not suggesting specifically that this is the case here - but there are numerous instances of events in WW2 and elsewhere where this has happened. Only in a few are the conspiracy theorists and other charlatons shown up, where new evidence comes to light. For example the loss of HMAS Sydney, that was supposedly sunk by a Japanese submarine before Japan was officially in WW2...... a submarine, which when one conspiracy theorist tried to identify it turned out to be the same sub that sank USS Indianapolis in 1945.... that sank HMAS Sydney some thirty months before its keel was laid down!