Number of ships sunk by Deutschland/Lützow

From the Washington Naval Treaty to the end of the Second World War.
softsea
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Marinha Grande, Portugal

Number of ships sunk by Deutschland/Lützow

Post by softsea » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:13 pm

Hi all

How many ships did the ship sunk?
As far as I know only 2:
Stonegate (5044 BRT) (10/09/39)
Lorentz W. Hansen (1918 BRT) (10/14/39)

plus the capture of the City of Flint (4963 BRT) (10/09/39).
Even Time magazine reported that capture, see bellow
http://jcgi.pathfinder.com/time/magazin ... 43,00.html

11925 BRT, including 2 NEUTRAL ships :oops:, not very good...

Of course, with the exception of the Graf Spee, the other heavy units of the Kriegsmarine did no better (like the ones on WWI - laying in harbour, one battle, laying in harbour - no strategic victory)

User avatar
Gary
Senior Member
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:37 pm
Location: Northumberland

Post by Gary » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:31 pm

Hi Softsea.

The Admiral Scheer sank the most tonnage of the German heavy ships.
The Admiral Hipper came in second place.
God created the world in 6 days.........and on the 7th day he built the Scharnhorst

User avatar
_Derfflinger_
Supporter
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:01 pm
Location: Missouri, USA

Re: Number of ships sunk by Deutschland/Lützow

Post by _Derfflinger_ » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:35 pm

softsea wrote:Of course, with the exception of the Graf Spee, the other heavy units of the Kriegsmarine did no better (like the ones on WWI - laying in harbour, one battle, laying in harbour - no strategic victory)
Panzerschiff Admiral Scheer did quite well on her commerce raiding cruises - I'd have to look up the specifics, but I believe she sank at least 10 ships and caused quite a bit of havoc while under the command of KzS Krancke.

Derf

User avatar
Gary
Senior Member
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:37 pm
Location: Northumberland

Post by Gary » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:37 pm

Hi Guys.

Me again.

Scheer's successes
God created the world in 6 days.........and on the 7th day he built the Scharnhorst

softsea
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Marinha Grande, Portugal

Post by softsea » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:41 pm

Yes guys, you're right.
:oops: My apologies to all the Scheer and Hipper fans...

Do you feel that, thou' the Tirpitz never sunk a ship, its mere presence in Norway and all the efforts that its destruction attempts involved (CVs, BBs, CAs, etc...) was strategically the biggest victory of the Kriegsmarine?

Those vessels could be used in the Mediterranean or even on the Indian Ocean against the Japanese.

User avatar
RNfanDan
Supporter
Posts: 424
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:06 pm
Location: USA

Post by RNfanDan » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:55 pm

softsea wrote: Do you feel that, thou' the Tirpitz never sunk a ship, its mere presence in Norway ... was strategically the biggest victory of the Kriegsmarine?
No. The biggest victory was the U-boat campaign. The second-biggest was Tirpitz' stationing in occupied Norway.

It could be argued, that Tirpitz was even responsible for the loss of PoW and Repulse. Churchill was so mindful of its presence that he actually believed that sending the two ships to Singapore, would produce the same effect on the Japanese, as Tirpitz did on the RN.
Image

User avatar
Antonio Bonomi
Senior Member
Posts: 3800
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vimercate ( Milano ) - Italy

Tirpitz

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:20 am

Ciao all,

never forget it was Tirpitz at sea ( OP. Rosselsprung or Knigth move) the only ' factor ' that forced Royal Navy to order PQ 17 to scatter ( plus the escort warships to abandon the area ), and consequently allowed U-Boote and FW200 to easily sink all the convoy.

So, in my personal opinion, those ships sinking are to be given to Tirpitz as far as credits :wink:

How many were they ?

Tirpitz, the only battleship able to sink a convoy just getting closer, sailing out from her anchorage escorted and air protected,......

Unfortunately Lutzow was responsible with Adm Hipper of the worst attack to a convoy ( Op. Regenbogen against JW51 ) that costed KM warships to be dismantled, Adm Raeder dismission, ... all done by Hitler with the help of Adm Donitz, .... than Scharnhorst disaster :( and,.. Tirpitz abandoned to her destiny :think: .

While Lutzow, Adm Scheer, Adm Hipper and Prinz Eugen were reduced to training ships on the Baltic sea.

Ciao Antonio :D

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7588
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: Number of ships sunk by Deutschland/Lützow

Post by RF » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:12 pm

_Derfflinger_ wrote:
softsea wrote:Of course, with the exception of the Graf Spee, the other heavy units of the Kriegsmarine did no better (like the ones on WWI - laying in harbour, one battle, laying in harbour - no strategic victory)
Panzerschiff Admiral Scheer did quite well on her commerce raiding cruises - I'd have to look up the specifics, but I believe she sank at least 10 ships and caused quite a bit of havoc while under the command of KzS Krancke.

Derf
She sank/captured 16 ships including Jervis Bay, plus 3 more ships in convoy HX 84 damaged. About 99,000 tons of shipping excluding the Jervis Bay tonnage.
Krancke also helped Pinguin by providing prize crews for the captured Norwegian whalers.

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7588
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: Number of ships sunk by Deutschland/Lützow

Post by RF » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:16 pm

softsea wrote:How many ships did the ship sunk?
As far as I know only 2:
Stonegate (5044 BRT) (10/09/39)
Lorentz W. Hansen (1918 BRT) (10/14/39)

plus the capture of the City of Flint (4963 BRT) (10/09/39).

11925 BRT, including 2 NEUTRAL ships :oops:, not very good...
Add to the tally approx. 700 Soviet tanks dstroyed on the Baltic coastline by the 28 cm. guns, some of them more than 10 miles inland.

User avatar
RF
Senior Member
Posts: 7588
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 pm
Location: Wolverhampton, ENGLAND

Re: Tirpitz

Post by RF » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:27 pm

Antonio Bonomi wrote:Unfortunately Lutzow was responsible with Adm Hipper of the worst attack to a convoy ( Op. Regenbogen against JW51 ) that costed KM warships to be dismantled, Adm Raeder dismissal, ... all done by Hitler with the help of Adm Donitz, .... than Scharnhorst disaster :( and,.. Tirpitz abandoned to her destiny :think: .

While Lutzow, Adm Scheer, Adm Hipper and Prinz Eugen were reduced to training ships on the Baltic sea.
You can't really blame Lutzow the ship for all this. Regenbogen worked - except that Kapitan Stange in Lutzow failed to open fire at the critical moment, because Stange was unsure of what he was about to fire on. This was a command and identification failure, not a ship problem as such.

I think Deutschland/Lutzow was a fine ship, she just wasn't given the opportunity to show what she could do. If Hitler hadn't had any hang ups over the original name, Wenneker could have had the opportunity to attack a North Atlantic convoy a year before Krancke did with Scheer.
Coming at the same time Scharnhorst/Gneisenau sank Rawalpindi,
it could have caused real uproar in the North Atlantic, and one immediate beneficiary to that would have been Graf Spee....

Post Reply