Musashi to be refloated?

[Karl Heidenreich]

I found these interesting publications. Despite the fact that I think is highly unlikely that this magnificent event happens it's worth reading:

http://www.etravelpilipinas.com/philipp ... rvices.htm

http://corregidor.proboards.com/index.c ... thread=273

http://magdiwangromblon.blogspot.com/20 ... t-off.html

As said, don't think such a thing will ever happen but if it did, then all the battleships buffs around the world could have the oportunity to go and sea a real battleship killer, a post Treaty non limited warship!!

[frontkampfer]

Not to be rude but this is a pipe dream. If I'm not mistaken, some concern was going to build another Titanic a few years ago when the movie of the same was out?

[lwd]

I thought I remember hearing about this before. It was discussed over on the IJN board when it first came out. Note that the two articles I got to come up both date to 2008. The conclusion was that it was either a scam or a pipe dream.

[tommy303]

There was a thread about this two years ago:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1925

As to the Titanic, there have been numerous articles published announcing plans to build a cruise ship replicating the original. These articles seem to circulate around every five tor ten years, and now we have the Musashi salvage making the rounds again too.

[RNfanDan]

Yes, and the new Titanic will be captained by Elvis!

[Karl Heidenreich]

No, the Titanic if refloated by the US then the captain will be Michael Jackson.

[19kilo]

By "battleship killer" do you mean submarine or CV?

[Karl Heidenreich]

Nope. It's part of the Japanese doctrine after their experiencie at Tsushima. They developed all their fleet based on this idea that a war will force their enemy, mainly the USN, to deploy their fleet in nearby Japanese waters where the IJN could fought a decisive battle in ground and terms of their choice.
Because the Japanese knew that they will be outnumbered then, in order to fight and win the decisive battle, they developed what would be the battleship killer, in this case the Yamato and Super Yamato Classes. Basically they discarded, conceptually, the notion of a campaign, a long one, in order for a war with a great battle. The Yamato was their clue for winning it.
In their mistake they create the most powerfull battleship. It's obvious that it didn't serve it purpose.

[lwd]

The Yamato class was just part of it. The Long Lance torpedoes and a great deal of doctrine were also involved. The problem for them was that in order for it to work the US had to follow not just the strategy but the tactics that the Japanese wanted them to and they had no means of forcing the US to do either.

[Karl Heidenreich]

lwd:

The Yamato class was just part of it. The Long Lance torpedoes and a great deal of doctrine were also involved. The problem for them was that in order for it to work the US had to follow not just the strategy but the tactics that the Japanese wanted them to and they had no means of forcing the US to do either.

Correct.

But we must admit that they had a reason to believe such a thing was possible: the russians in 1905. The Japanese were to expand, in WWII, around their homewaters so it was easy to think that any action will take place nearby their bases or fueling stations. If we read Tully's and Parshall's book on Midway it's clear that Yamamoto's intention was to create such a decisive battle (but with CVs instead of BBs) which obviously failed.
All of Japan's equipment and training was to fight this battle. But when it didn't happen as they thought it will and the USN adopted a protracted campaing instead they were lost. Japan's fleet was for three months of fight... the US doctrine called for several years.

[19kilo]

Would it br right to say the Japanese themselves made this decisive battle (as they forsaw it) impossible by knocking out the US battlefleet at Pearl?

[Karl Heidenreich]

19kilo:

Would it br right to say the Japanese themselves made this decisive battle (as they forsaw it) impossible by knocking out the US battlefleet at Pearl?

That was the intention, obviously. But it failed because the CVs were untouched. Then they failed again in using the Kido Butai for everything but to seek and destroy those US CVs, which is a paradox because that goes precisely against their own doctrine. Only by May 1942 the Midway Operation came but Yamamoto executed it in a very odd way and making sure a more flexible Nimitz tore to pieces their Kido Butai.
There was a final chance at Guadalcanal but, again in a paradox, the Japanese didn;t sent the bulk of their fleet to block the USN there. They sent piecemeal their units as Kirishima and Hiei. In those moments a battleline with the Yamatos and Nagatos would have erased the two USN BBs and producing also a CV battle that could be decisive. In Guadalcanal the decisive battle happened and the Japanese failed to see it.
If you ask me Yamamoto was not that good strategist and was a poor tactician. NImitz was far superior to him in every aspect and, very likely, he was the best US commander ever and , without any doubt, of WWII.

[19kilo]

I have allways wondered why they sent ships into Guadlecanal piecemeal like that.........

[RF]

The Yamato class was just part of it. The Long Lance torpedoes and a great deal of doctrine were also involved. The problem for them was that in order for it to work the US had to follow not just the strategy but the tactics that the Japanese wanted them to and they had no means of forcing the US to do either.

However the US has to attack Japan to win, meaning the US has to enter Japanese home waters in strength. But it is the strength and the production logistics behind that which was the problem for the Japanese. They weren't just outnumbered, they were facing overwhelming odds by force of attrition - the Japanese could not quickly replace their losses with new forces of equal quality, whereas the Americans could over and over again. Its not a question of one decisive battle, but many battles in quick succession, until the Americans win.

[RF]

Coming back to the thread, as with other war wrecks like Bismarck I believe that Musashi should be left undisturbed as a war grave.