Bismarck isn't hit in the rudder

[alecsandros]

Hello,

What if Bismarck wouldn't have been hit in the stern, but somewhere on the middle section?

My impression is that the previous 2 torpedoes did little damage... And a 3rd... May have slowed the ship down, but not below 16-18kts.
With Ark Royal having only 6 operational Swordfish left, and KGV/Rodney low on fuel (and making 20-21kts), only a lucky torpedo hit by Vian's destroyers may have brought Bismarck's demise.

But IF the ship wasn't hit on the stern, I think it had more than 50% chances of arriving in Brest, France.

What do you think ?

[Karl Heidenreich]

Alex,

Your conclusion is correct. If the Bismarck wasn't slowed down at those extremes and being able to manouver and maintain the course then she is for a go to the Channel Dash next year. The British knew that which is why they threw even the toilets and handsinks after the German battleship.

[paul.mercer]

Gentlemen,
I agree, the only thing that might have slowed her down enough for the battleships to catch up would have been a torpedo hit on her already damaged bow, letting in even more water, otherwise she would have got clean away.

[frontkampfer]

Gentlemen,

I too agree! Bismarck making it to Brest would not have changed the course of the war but it would have been a tremendous propaganda coup. It never ceases to amaze me how historical events occurred almost as if written by a novelist or screenwriter. I wish Bismarck would have made it. It would have been sunk at some point later, probably have a fate similar to Tirpitz, but boy would it have shaken the RN when pictures of her sailing into Brest were published. Just MHO!

[dunmunro]

Hello,


With Ark Royal having only 6 operational Swordfish left, and KGV/Rodney low on fuel (and making 20-21kts), only a lucky torpedo hit by

Ark Royal`s nominal aircraft complement was 24 Fulmars and 30 Swordfish. There was a fully torpedo armed strike of 12 Swordfish circling above Bismarck`s final battle (and others on recon and ASW patrol), although Grenfell states that these were Ark Royal`s last 12 torpedoes. Further attacks could only have been made with 500 or 250lb bombs, although the Swordfish was quite effective as a dive bomber, it would be unlikely that these small bombs could slow Bismarck significantly, unless a`B` bomb or a near miss was able to flood more boiler or engine compartments.

[alecsandros]

According to my readings, there were only 6 swordfishes cicrcling bismarck in his final battle.

[lwd]

Weren't there British subs off Brest as well? Certainly the odds are with Bismarck for making Brest if she doesn't loose her steering but it's hardly a done deal.

[dunmunro]

According to my readings, there were only 6 swordfishes cicrcling bismarck in his final battle.

Pursuit, by Ludovic Kennedy also states 12 torpedo armed Swordfish circling above the Last Battle, and so does:

27 May 1941: At 0920, Ark Royal launches twelve Swordfish in order to attack the crippled Bismarck that is being engaged by Admiral Tovey's force at this time. The striking force appears in the scene of the battle at about 1015, but due to the heavy fire from the British warships stays away. The Bismarck finally sinks at 1040.
http://www.kbismarck.com/ark-royal.html

[Karl Heidenreich]

It is not important if the British had 6 or 20 or 100 Swordfish on May 27th. If Bismarck wasn't hit at the rudder the previously then it would not be anywhere near those Swordfish could fly.

[RF]

But IF the ship wasn't hit on the stern, I think it had more than 50% chances of arriving in Brest, France.
What do you think ?

More than 50% and a heroes welcome.

But then of course with Germany's three biggest in service warships in roughly one place, very close to Britain, they become subject to intense bombing by RAF Bomber Command and scrutiny and possibly sabotage by French resistence. Not exactly a safe haven....

[neil hilton]

Just an opinion here. But if Bismarck had made it to Brest the RN may have tried another Taranto!

[RF]

They did use torpedo bombers against Scharnhorst and Gneisenau whilst they were in Brest. But the German flak and smokescreens were an altogether different proposition than what the Italians were able to do at Taranto.

Nevertheless I do believe (off the top of my head, without doing any research here) that Gneisenau was hit by a torpedo in the outer harbour in Brest and the pilot, who was shot down, got a VC.

[madmike]

IF Bismarck wasnt hit in the stern then its a far bet she would have made Brest,,,,,then the Brits have the problem of 3 german capital ships in Brest and how to attack them ,,,,,,and if those 3 are joined by PE,,,and do the channel dash , that puts bismarck and company home for refit and repairs , does this give the german high command the idea to use bismarck and tirpitz together to go after convoys to russia? or try for a breakout into the north atlantic together? the idea of the Bismarck and tirpitz going out together would have scared the crap out of the royal navy.

[RF]

madmike,

I think that RAF Bomber Command would make the French ports very uncomfortable for the Germans, particular if the bombing of the rest of Europe is cancelled to make way for all out attack on just these targets..... and if there is a Channel Dash, well the British might have been better prepared for it... and if the Germans got home, more air raids will then be directed at the German ports.... which in reality accounted for Gneisenau.

[RF]

Another thought - what if the St Nazaire commando raid was done with Bismarck actually in the dry dock?