Bismarck radar and radio

[E.Ludwig]

Bonjour Ullrich and Antonio, Re Ullrichs question about a map I abandoned trying to calque an existing map. I think a better solution is to make a photocopy of an existing map (of North Sea and norwegian coastal waters). This I have now done and the last operation is to getting rid of the many black lines indicating the existing commervial shipping (peace time) lanes susceptable to interfere with envisaged plotting work.

Since I have no scanner maybe Antonio could help us by transmitting the A4 map in an e-mail to Ullrich? What say Antonio? Erik



position and bearing

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao Erik, Ulrich and all,

@ Erik,

I did not understand well what you need me to scan to Ulrich, but of course if it is something I have I will be more than welcome to do it.

Let me know mon ami .

Ciao Antonio

[E.Ludwig]

Hello Antonio, well, Ullrich translates the war diary of Tirpitz and asked for a map of the norwegian coast because it mentions bearings of coastal radars. So I made a map and will send it to you so ypu can forward it to Ullrich. Thank you very much for your gesture.

Another point: did you receive the french magazin with my article about the Metox ?

Another another point: I went through the big ARENA document yoy were so kind to send me.
y intention was to find cases where Bismarck's R600 played a rôle in Bismarck's tactics. I did not find such cases in the text.
This is understandable because Brennecke did not have access to B's post war war diary and/or survival of navigation officers like he had in the case of his book on Scheer.

Thanks again. Ciao, erik

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao Eric and all,

YES, of course now I understand and of course it will be my pleasure to help you and send the whole things once scanned to Ulrich.

I will scan and send also the French magazine you sent me too.

I still need to contact those other guys you sent me the references about,..too many things to do,.. I am really busy now... but I will do this as well.

Ciao Mon Ami Antonio

[wadinga]

Erik and Co,

The FuMO power reference is as follows: Warship Edition 21 Published by Conway Maritime Press 1982. Article by Erwin Sieche German Naval Radar to 1945 Part 1. He has a table which references source F Trenckle Die Deutschen Funkmessverfahren, bis 1945 . The table has a power column which rates the FuMO 21,22 23 24/25 26 and 30 all at 8kW, before moving up to the FuMO 61 at 30 kW. Sadly I don't possess the Warship magazine with the concluding Part 2. Hope this is helpful.

Norman Friedman writing in his book Naval Radar Conway Maritime Press 1981 mentions that the FuMO 32-34 was just the FuMO 24-26 with peak power upgraded to 125kW in 1944.

Hopefully Ulrich will turn up further references to Tirpitz proto-Metox.

All the Best
wadinga

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao Sean, Eric, Ulrich and all,

I have that Erwin Sieche German radar article.

If anybody wants a scan copy just let me know.

Ciao Antonio

[E.Ludwig]

To Wadinga ref. your 12-03-05

Hallo, still around? Here my answer: Brennecker talked to the officers who in 1941 voted for the Metox prototype be on board BS. Most of these officers survived and started talking about things. He has therefore first hand info.
2. There was no other prototype Metox in 1941 so it was not on board BS.
3. Pics of Sumatra antenna: telle me where to send.

4. Is Vic still around? Regards, erik

[E.Ludwig]

Hello Wadinga, I reply to your post 12 march 2005:
1. Brennecke talked after the war to officers who participated in the May 1941 special radar meeting (all officers under radar oath) rwhere it was decided to put the only available Metox R600 on board BS to find the british radar frequencies. So he had first hand info. In Radio bygones No.100 you will find details.

2. Yes Brinkman did not have also a Metox on board because there was not one available.

3. About pictures of sumatra antenna just tell me to what address I should send them to you by postal mail.

Regards, Erik

[E.Ludwig]

Hello Wadinga, I made a mess of it. Sent twice the same posting. Anyway in the second one please change BS to PE.

As regards your 19,11,05 posting Trenkle in his book in the table gives one KW for Fumo 21, 22, 23. The 8 KW were available from Oct 1942. Sieche in his text does not give power for these radar types.
I do not have Friedman. 125 KW is correct for Fumo 24 and 26.
For more info about sumatra I'll try send it by postal mail, erik

[E.Ludwig]

Hi Antonio, you got an answer from Mr.Caresses about french radar? Erik

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao Erik and all,

YES !, Philippe got me to the right person and I got my answer to help a friend that requested me that info.

Many thansk for the help Mon Ami. Antonio

[E.Ludwig]

OK Antonio, I remember you told me about your radarfriend. Did he read my article about Metox. Any remarks? Especially about Luetjens misinterpretation of the Metox indications about the position of Suffolk. on May 25th. A difficult question. erik

[wadinga]

All,
Just got hold of a book called "Electronic Warfare" by Mario de Arcangelis written in 1981, originally in Italian. Despite giving no references he claims both Bismarck and Prinz Eugen had Metox, and further, that sets were sent out to Hipper and Scheer, by submarine, in the Atlantic.

The later stuff in the book (post WWII) is very good and I suspect he relied in inaccurate memories for the early period and didn't do any proper research.

If anybody can provide a translation of the material from Brennecke's book it would be very useful to get the exact description of the decision process to put the prototype Metox onboard Bismarck. It might explain why other ships do not seem to have got Metox for another year.

All the Best
wadinga

[E.Ludwig]

Wadinga your post 5-9-2005 about the R600 on board BS: The Scheer came back in Kiel after his raid on 1 april 1941. Its captain was T.Krancke. He was not only the hero of the day but also the man who had radar experience. High Command listened to him and decided he should defend his idea (the RN has no radar) in a meeting of all officers and civilians under radar oath. After the war ex naval officer Brennecke writes a book about the BS. He looks for information. He talks to ex officers who were present at the meeting qnd those who were not present but who had heard about the decision of the meeting to put the only prototype on board BS. Amo,g all theses contacts Krancke was of course the most important. All these people confirmed tthere was a R600 on BS. Brennecke could not have better information. The information however was limited to the fact that R600 was on BS. The BS Captain and radarofficer went down with the ship.
Therefore Breneckes book on BS has no details of radar use and performance no of R600 performance.

The difference with Brennecke's next book, about the Scheer Raid, is enormous. He wrote that book together with Krancke who was the masrermind who invented at each encounter with a RN ship. the tactics how to approach the enemy, how to detect the enemy had radar or not.

On the German Navy forum, helas now stopped) I hear a discussion between an ex Amiral and a n officer about this question. Both officers were convinced that an R600 was on board. the BS.

Maybe a report of the meeting can be found in the archives: Bundesarchiv Freiburg.

All the best to all

[wadinga]

Erik,

Thanks for your excellent info on Brennecke's sources. As you say, no-one could know how well the Metox performed or if it persuaded Lutjens he was still under surveillance, allowing him to send the "Long Message".

Do you have an estimate when the next Metox was deployed, was it so difficult to create another when the prototype had been lost?

I got hold of the copy of Bygones with your letter in, but I have to order the two previous ones with your article!

All the Best
wadinga