Bismarck Tirpitz Scharnhorst vs King George V Prince of Wales Hood

[dunmunro]

hello there
emmm…this is interesting. RN 14 with 1460fps is of AoF 26.4 at 25000 yard. I didn't find the test mentioned the fall of angel. did they use 1460fps plus 30 degree? or they did include 26.4 AoF plus 30 degree course angel? I didn't see 30 degree is mentioned in the file either.
thank you

The RN regularly tested AP shells against 12in armour in "proofing trials". These trials used guns set up at very close ranges to the plate and the armour plate was inclined at 30degs. The propellant charge was varied to achieve the desired muzzle velocity.

Thank you. Does it mean the Angel is 30 degree with various MV? If so, It is not a test to derive the penetration figure, right? It looks like some kind of test for shell's physical properties like if it is robust enough...is that so?

It is a test of the shell and the armour, however it gives us a data point to work with.

[paul.mercer]

Gentlemen,
I've been following this debate with interest but I'm afraid the mathematical calculations leave me 'dead in the water'!
If this scenario was to take place then surely it would be fairer to assume that the KGV's involved had all their guns and radar working as they should which would place them in a far better position to tackle Bismarck and Tirpitz. While I am no expert on the subject, I would have thought that no matter how good a case has been made for the 11" guns of the twins that if it came to a straight one on one fight in reasonable conditions the much maligned KGV would win even if it sustained damage while doing so and the same would probably apply with one of the 'R' battlecrusiers if engaged against one of the Twins, although that result might be a bit closer!
However,I wouldn't like to predict the result of just 2 KG's and the two 'R's' (no Hood) against Bismarck and Tirpitz, that really would be some battle!
Does the old boxing maxim of a good 'big one' will always beat a good 'little one' still apply I wonder?

[ede144]

Gentlemen,
I've been following this debate with interest but I'm afraid the mathematical calculations leave me 'dead in the water'!
If this scenario was to take place then surely it would be fairer to assume that the KGV's involved had all their guns and radar working as they should which would place them in a far better position to tackle Bismarck and Tirpitz. While I am no expert on the subject, I would have thought that no matter how good a case has been made for the 11" guns of the twins that if it came to a straight one on one fight in reasonable conditions the much maligned KGV would win even if it sustained damage while doing so and the same would probably apply with one of the 'R' battlecrusiers if engaged against one of the Twins, although that result might be a bit closer!
However,I wouldn't like to predict the result of just 2 KG's and the two 'R's' (no Hood) against Bismarck and Tirpitz, that really would be some battle!
Does the old boxing maxim of a good 'big one' will always beat a good 'little one' still apply I wonder?

German Doktrin was, to fire at the most powerfull opponent, that would still be Hood. So let's asume BS an TP fire on Hood and sink it quickly. In the mean time SH keeps KG and PoW bussy.

[alecsandros]

Historically, at Denmark Strait, Bismarck and Prinz Eugen won the battle against Hood and PRince of WAles.
Adding Tirpitz and swapping Prinz Eugen with Scharnhorst would add the German side 63.000 tons of displacement and an extra 8x380mm guns and 9x283mm guns , in exchange for losing 8x203mm guns.
On the other hand, the Royal Navy gets only 37000 tons of extra displacement (half of what the Germans are receiving) - therefore the likely outcocme is a slaughter of RN forces.