Feindliche Ortung

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José M. Rico
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Feindliche Ortung

Post by José M. Rico » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:43 pm

Here is an interesting German document from June 1941 about the use of radar, hydrophones, jammers, etc during Rheinübung, and recommendations for future operations.

http://www.kbismarck.com/funkspruch-flo ... tjens.html

If anyone finds any typos I may have introduced during the transcription of the original document, please let me know here so they can be corrected as soon as possible. I type quite fast and mistakes are sometimes unavoidable. Thanks in advance.

dunmunro
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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by dunmunro » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:12 pm

Thanks.

It's readable via google translation but I'm certain that google has problems with the technical terminology and KM acronyms.

northcape
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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by northcape » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:43 pm

Thanks!

The interesting new part (well, at least for me) is, that, according to her log, Prinz Eugen detected and evaded Hood's torpedoes.

Has this been discussed before, e.g. can it be confirmed as a false alarm?

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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by dunmunro » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:13 pm

northcape wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:43 pm
Thanks!

The interesting new part (well, at least for me) is, that, according to her log, Prinz Eugen detected and evaded Hood's torpedoes.

Has this been discussed before, e.g. can it be confirmed as a false alarm?
Hood was never in torpedo range. The report mentions that typical sound detection range was only 10% of that reported by PE during the Bismarck episode.

northcape
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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by northcape » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:22 pm

I am aware of this, I'm just curious about this mentioning of the torpedoes (my native language is German, and it is very clear in the report).

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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by Thorsten Wahl » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:30 am

The report mentions that typical sound detection range was only 10% of that reported by PE during the Bismarck episode.
The mentioned 10% do not characterize the typical range, it was a exceptional bad range area near the Azores, as even the usually difficult Baltic Sea accoustic conditions allow for detection ranges for passive accoustic devices of about 16 km against big ships.
Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!

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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by José M. Rico » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:22 am

northcape wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:43 pm
The interesting new part (well, at least for me) is, that, according to her log, Prinz Eugen detected and evaded Hood's torpedoes.

Has this been discussed before, e.g. can it be confirmed as a false alarm?
Captain Brinkmann himself said he observed bubble trails from the bridge of Prinz Eugen after 0603 hours, but whatever he saw could not possibly be from Hood for reasons of timing and range. Good thing for the British is that the subsequent course alterations of the German squadron to avoid those "torpedoes" prevented the Prince of Wales of receiving further damage.

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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by dunmunro » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:43 pm

José M. Rico wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:22 am
northcape wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:43 pm
The interesting new part (well, at least for me) is, that, according to her log, Prinz Eugen detected and evaded Hood's torpedoes.

Has this been discussed before, e.g. can it be confirmed as a false alarm?
Captain Brinkmann himself said he observed bubble trails from the bridge of Prinz Eugen after 0603 hours, but whatever he saw could not possibly be from Hood for reasons of timing and range. Good thing for the British is that the subsequent course alterations of the German squadron to avoid those "torpedoes" prevented the Prince of Wales of receiving further damage.
Leach is being castigated for altering course when under the combined fire of 8 x 38cm, 8 x 20.3cm, 6 x 15cm, and 14 x 10.5cm guns (and after being hit by 3 x 38cm and 4 x 20.3cm shells) and the threat of 4 x TTs. Yet Brinkman (under no fire at all) and Lutjens alter course due to imaginary torpedoes and there's nary an unkind word said about it...

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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by José M. Rico » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:27 pm

dunmunro wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:43 pm
Leach is being castigated for altering course when under the combined fire of 8 x 38cm, 8 x 20.3cm, 6 x 15cm, and 14 x 10.5cm guns (and after being hit by 3 x 38cm and 4 x 20.3cm shells) and the threat of 4 x TTs. Yet Brinkman (under no fire at all) and Lutjens alter course due to imaginary torpedoes and there's nary an unkind word said about it...
I was not castigating anyone!

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Re: Feindliche Ortung

Post by dunmunro » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:47 pm

José M. Rico wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:27 pm
dunmunro wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:43 pm
Leach is being castigated for altering course when under the combined fire of 8 x 38cm, 8 x 20.3cm, 6 x 15cm, and 14 x 10.5cm guns (and after being hit by 3 x 38cm and 4 x 20.3cm shells) and the threat of 4 x TTs. Yet Brinkman (under no fire at all) and Lutjens alter course due to imaginary torpedoes and there's nary an unkind word said about it...
I was not castigating anyone!
Yes, I know, and I'm sorry if it seemed I was suggesting that.

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