Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Discussions about the history of the ship, technical details, etc.

Moderator: Bill Jurens

User avatar
José M. Rico
Administrator
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:23 am
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by José M. Rico » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:06 am

Uploaded the following to the website:
Report of the Commander in Chief of the Kriegsmarine, Admiral Raeder, to the Führer, Adolf Hitler about the Bismarck operation.
Berghof, 6 June 1941.

http://www.kbismarck.com/raeder-berghof-report.html

User avatar
Alberto Virtuani
Senior Member
Posts: 3448
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:22 am
Location: Milan (Italy)

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by Alberto Virtuani » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:37 am

Hi Jose,
thanks for posting in English the official report (most interesting) of the operation ! I had never been able to read it entirely yet.

Especially useful the description of the German formation on 24 morning ("in column"), the open fire (20800 meters) and cease fire (18000) distances, the shells expended by Bismarck (93) and the (unfortunately short) account of the DS battle.


Bye, Alberto
"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)

User avatar
wadinga
Senior Member
Posts: 1869
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:49 pm
Location: Tonbridge England

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by wadinga » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:00 am

Hello Jose,

Outstanding! Even more contemporary information freely presented for general study on this peerless website.

Judging by the date, it is almost completely based (uncritically) on Brinkmann's KTB, even before the 5 Bismarck survivors' interrogation was complete, and long before Schmundt, Carls or Schniewind had made their reviews of this report in the light of other information. It is therefore very much an interim report, but of considerable value nonetheless.

I find it interesting (frustrating) that it mentions the potential availability of radar transmission detection equipment, without confirming or denying whether Bismarck had an operational prototype.

I see that you list:
Das Gefecht in der Dänemarkstraße. Artilleriegefechtsbericht "Prinz Eugen" B.Nr. G 2243 vom 12.7.1941.
in the archives. Are you able to comment further, at this time? :D

Thank you once again for the availability of this splendid website.

All the best

wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"

User avatar
Antonio Bonomi
Senior Member
Posts: 3800
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vimercate ( Milano ) - Italy

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:43 pm

Hello everybody,

@ Wadinga,

you wrote :
Judging by the date, it is almost completely based (uncritically) on Brinkmann's KTB, even before the 5 Bismarck survivors' interrogation was complete, and long before Schmundt, Carls or Schniewind had made their reviews of this report in the light of other information. It is therefore very much an interim report, but of considerable value nonetheless.
The above statement is not correct, because the Oberst Hubert Schmundt was present at the Berghof review.
AH_Berghof_Raeder.jpg
AH_Berghof_Raeder.jpg (61.33 KiB) Viewed 3046 times
In fact :
Oberst is a German word. Spelled with a capital O, "Oberst" is a noun and defines the military rank of colonel or group captain. Spelled with a lower case o, or "oberst", it is an adjective, meaning "top, topmost, uppermost, highest, chief, head, first, principal, or supreme". Both usages derive from the superlative of ober(e), "the upper" or "the uppermost".
If the Commander of the German cruisers ( Oberst ) VizeAdm Hubert Schmundt was there, talking about the Rheinubung operation, it is reasonable from a military stand point to assume that both Adm Carls and Adm Schniewind were on board about everything it was going to be covered with AH on that briefing.

Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

User avatar
José M. Rico
Administrator
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:23 am
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by José M. Rico » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:07 pm

Alberto Virtuani wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:37 am
Especially useful the description of the German formation on 24 morning ("in column"), the open fire (20800 meters) and cease fire (18000) distances, the shells expended by Bismarck (93) and the (unfortunately short) account of the DS battle.
As we already know, all that information originates from Lütjens long message of 25 May.
wadinga wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:00 am
Judging by the date, it is almost completely based (uncritically) on Brinkmann's KTB, even before the 5 Bismarck survivors' interrogation was complete, and long before Schmundt, Carls or Schniewind had made their reviews of this report in the light of other information. It is therefore very much an interim report, but of considerable value nonetheless.
Yes, that's correct. Raeder reported to Hitler only 5 days after the Prinz Eugen arrived in Brest. So, there wasn't really much time to go over every little detail of the operation. They do however seen to have used PG's KTB, messages from Group West, and the reports of the 3 survivors rescued by U-74.
wadinga wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:00 am
Das Gefecht in der Dänemarkstraße. Artilleriegefechtsbericht "Prinz Eugen" B.Nr. G 2243 vom 12.7.1941.
in the archives. Are you able to comment further, at this time? :D
Not yet. :)

Antonio Bonomi wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:43 pm

The above statement is not correct, because the Oberst Hubert Schmundt was present at the Berghof review.
Oberst is a German word. Spelled with a capital O, "Oberst" is a noun and defines the military rank of colonel or group captain. Spelled with a lower case o, or "oberst", it is an adjective, meaning "top, topmost, uppermost, highest, chief, head, first, principal, or supreme". Both usages derive from the superlative of ober(e), "the upper" or "the uppermost".
If the Commander of the German cruisers ( Oberst ) VizeAdm Hubert Schmundt was there, talking about the Rheinubung operation, it is reasonable from a military stand point to assume that both Adm Carls and Adm Schniewind were on board about everything it was going to be covered with AH on that briefing.
"Oberst" is an Army rank, not Kriegsmarine.
Colonel Rudolf Schmundt (later General) was Hitler's chief adjutant. He was injured during Hitler's assassination attempt in July 1944, and died a couple of months later.

The Commander of Cruisers, was Vizeadmiral Hubert Schmundt (1888-1984) and was not present at the Berghof on 6 June.

All the best,

User avatar
Antonio Bonomi
Senior Member
Posts: 3800
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vimercate ( Milano ) - Italy

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:13 pm

Hello everybody,

@ Jose' Rico,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Schmundt

thank Jose'.

Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

User avatar
wadinga
Senior Member
Posts: 1869
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:49 pm
Location: Tonbridge England

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by wadinga » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:51 pm

Hello All,

With so many Schmundts about, it's all too easy to make a complete Puttkamer of yourself. :wink:


Again this splendid website makes the considered comments of the named officers over succeeding months available to all, a terrific contribution to better understanding. :clap: :clap: :clap:



"Not yet". Hmmm, how deliciously tantalising! :cool:


All the best

wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"

User avatar
Antonio Bonomi
Senior Member
Posts: 3800
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vimercate ( Milano ) - Italy

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:55 pm

Hello everybody,

@ Wadinga,

I am glad we made you so happy, ... and fast on responding, ... so it will be fairly easy now to answer also on the other thread about the bearings just as Bill Jurens asked you, ... with the same speed and happiness.

Given the above document you can add now also the 20.800 meters open fire distance between Bismarck and the Hood an 05:55, ... which is just an additional evaluation of the correct timing and distance, ... officially written by somebody that was there, ... like Adm Gunther Lutjens was, ... unless you like to wait while hoping that there was another Lutjens sailing the Atlantic ocean on board the Bismarck.

Adm Gunther Lutjens statements ... are more important than VizeAdm Hubert Schmundt ones, ... isnt it ?

So, ... summarizing, ... at 05:55 battle time, ... the distance between the Bismarck and the Hood was 20.800 meters at the German open fire according to Adm Lutjens, ... and you can check it now on my map, ... after having checked the other bearings of course.

We are just waiting your answer now, ...

Bye Antonio
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

User avatar
José M. Rico
Administrator
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:23 am
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by José M. Rico » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:54 pm

Wadinga,
thanks for the website compliments, but there is no need of so many smilies.

Algonquin-R17
Junior Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:40 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Raeder report to Hitler about Bismarck operation

Post by Algonquin-R17 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:01 am

Thank you for the article, it was an enjoyable read. Interesting to see how such reports were presented at the time.

Bob

Post Reply