Bismarck ammunition before last battle
Moderator: Bill Jurens
Bismarck ammunition before last battle
Did the Bismarck have enough ammunition left to fight the last battle against Rodney and King George V? Both turrets Anton and Bruno went out of action early in the battle but has anyone considered that perhaps the Bismarck just run out of ammo and couldn't fire back anymore?
- paulcadogan
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Remember Bismarck's fired her big guns several times both before and after the DS battle:
1)At least three salvos at Norfolk on the evening of the 23rd May
2) In the DS - more than 40 shells I'm sure - she was firing at Hood from 5:55 to 6:00 and at PoW from 6:01 to 6:09 - 14 minutes.
3) At the separation from Prinz Eugen (6:14 pm, May 24)- she fired first at Suffolk and then had a 12 minute duel with PoW
4) During Victorious' Swordfish attack - big guns reportedly fired to produce splashes that might interfere with or down the aircraft.
5) Another brief exchange with PoW in the twilight shortly after Victorious' air attack at about 30,000 yards range.
6) Possibly during Ark Royal's Swordfish attack (as for first air attack)
7) At the attacking destroyers overnight (26th-27th)
So it's hard to say how much was expended prior to the final assault, but I don't think her silencing was due to lack of ammo. Her guns, turrets and directors were simply wiped out in the British cannonade - Anton & Bruno being taken out by Rodney just after 9 AM and Caesar and Dora being the last to be silenced. Had the British fire not been so telling, I'm sure both KGV and Rodney would have tasted her sting as the battle raged on.
Paul
1)At least three salvos at Norfolk on the evening of the 23rd May
2) In the DS - more than 40 shells I'm sure - she was firing at Hood from 5:55 to 6:00 and at PoW from 6:01 to 6:09 - 14 minutes.
3) At the separation from Prinz Eugen (6:14 pm, May 24)- she fired first at Suffolk and then had a 12 minute duel with PoW
4) During Victorious' Swordfish attack - big guns reportedly fired to produce splashes that might interfere with or down the aircraft.
5) Another brief exchange with PoW in the twilight shortly after Victorious' air attack at about 30,000 yards range.
6) Possibly during Ark Royal's Swordfish attack (as for first air attack)
7) At the attacking destroyers overnight (26th-27th)
So it's hard to say how much was expended prior to the final assault, but I don't think her silencing was due to lack of ammo. Her guns, turrets and directors were simply wiped out in the British cannonade - Anton & Bruno being taken out by Rodney just after 9 AM and Caesar and Dora being the last to be silenced. Had the British fire not been so telling, I'm sure both KGV and Rodney would have tasted her sting as the battle raged on.
Paul
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man
clock 10.12...25may...lutjen sent a radio message saying he just up 93 armorpercing rounds in the first battel??
93 shells /14 minits..........6.6 shells/60s?
Some eyewittnes report say that it tok 1 hour into the battel before the brittish landed the first hit???
Some eyewittnes report say that 3 turets was still fiering after 2 hours into the battel??
4turets for one hour =396 shells
3 turrets two hours =594 shells
93 shells /14 minits..........6.6 shells/60s?
Some eyewittnes report say that it tok 1 hour into the battel before the brittish landed the first hit???
Some eyewittnes report say that 3 turets was still fiering after 2 hours into the battel??
4turets for one hour =396 shells
3 turrets two hours =594 shells
- paulcadogan
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Burner,
I don't think your "eyewitnesses" have any credibility!
The first hit on Bismarck took place at 9:02 - 15 minutes after Rodney opened fire (kind of a long time compared to the "untrained" Prince of Wales 3 hits in 8 minutes in the DS!).
As for the final salvo, just read senior survivor and 4th Gunnery Officer Baron von Mullenheim Rechberg's account of the battle:
"At 0927, one of our fore turrets, either Anton or Bruno, fired one more salvo, but the firing became irregular and finally petered out. Shell damage brought the end nearer and nearer. First turret Caesar and then Dora fell silent. At 0931 the Bismarck's main battery fired its last salvo."
The Bismarck was silenced after 44 minutes and the British ships kept pouring shells into her for another 44 minutes, ceasing fire at 10:15.
Paul
I don't think your "eyewitnesses" have any credibility!
The first hit on Bismarck took place at 9:02 - 15 minutes after Rodney opened fire (kind of a long time compared to the "untrained" Prince of Wales 3 hits in 8 minutes in the DS!).
As for the final salvo, just read senior survivor and 4th Gunnery Officer Baron von Mullenheim Rechberg's account of the battle:
"At 0927, one of our fore turrets, either Anton or Bruno, fired one more salvo, but the firing became irregular and finally petered out. Shell damage brought the end nearer and nearer. First turret Caesar and then Dora fell silent. At 0931 the Bismarck's main battery fired its last salvo."
The Bismarck was silenced after 44 minutes and the British ships kept pouring shells into her for another 44 minutes, ceasing fire at 10:15.
Paul
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man
I believe Luetjens merely states expenditure was 93 rounds from the main battery, but not what kind. While the majority would have been armour piercing against Hood and Prince of Wales, the first eight shells were semi-armour piercing, as that is what had been loaded the day before when Luetjens tried to engage Wake-Walker's cruisers.clock 10.12...25may...lutjen sent a radio message saying he just up 93 armorpercing rounds in the first battel??
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood and Earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned these defended;
And saved the sum of things for pay.
- paulcadogan
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Ok Burner, maybe my "judgement" was too hasty! I'm sure for the men of Bismarck, that battle went on for ages as if the end would never come.
What I'd say to that is that for men under the stress of battle a lot of honest errors can be made in their interpretation of what they are witnessing and many factors and pieces of evidence have to be taken into account.
And it also depends on who they are talking to!
Example: In the British Boards of Inquiry into the loss of Hood, Bismarck's survivors - including the Baron - reportedly stated that Hood's gunnery against them was very impressive and she had found Bismarck's range. They felt if she had been able to get off another salvo Bismarck might have recieved heavy damage!! We know now that Hood's shells probably never got anywhere near Bismarck.... unless they were talking of PoW....
Paul
What I'd say to that is that for men under the stress of battle a lot of honest errors can be made in their interpretation of what they are witnessing and many factors and pieces of evidence have to be taken into account.
And it also depends on who they are talking to!
Example: In the British Boards of Inquiry into the loss of Hood, Bismarck's survivors - including the Baron - reportedly stated that Hood's gunnery against them was very impressive and she had found Bismarck's range. They felt if she had been able to get off another salvo Bismarck might have recieved heavy damage!! We know now that Hood's shells probably never got anywhere near Bismarck.... unless they were talking of PoW....
Paul
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man
I believe the load out was divided fairly equally between AP, base-detonating HE (SAP), and point-detonating HE. I have seen the inventory numbers before, and the division was not exactly equal, but close, so about 42 rounds per gun of each type--roughly 336 AP total. Unfortunately I do not remember quite the exact numbers. The expenditure of 85 rounds AP against Holland's squadron represented approximately 25% of her total outfit of that type. Assuming she fired another 68 rounds of various types against Norfolk, PoW during the pursuit, against the Swordfish, and against Vians destroyers, she might have gone into her final action with about 106 rounds per gun left of all types.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood and Earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned these defended;
And saved the sum of things for pay.
- paulcadogan
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:03 am
- Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Makes the cry "We shall fight to the last shell!" all the more meaningful.
But... Bismarck was not firing four-gun salvos every thirty seconds during the final battle. Once she started taking hits it became irregular and her turrets were one by one put out of action, some temporarily and eventually all permanently. I doubt she fired enough to expend what 30knots calculated, even in 44 minutes.
Paul
But... Bismarck was not firing four-gun salvos every thirty seconds during the final battle. Once she started taking hits it became irregular and her turrets were one by one put out of action, some temporarily and eventually all permanently. I doubt she fired enough to expend what 30knots calculated, even in 44 minutes.
Paul
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man
This Board of Inquiry was I understand held in 1941 and for German prisoners, as with any other POW's its name, rank and number only, per the Geneva Convention. So any evidence from them is likely to be disinformation.paulcadogan wrote:
Example: In the British Boards of Inquiry into the loss of Hood, Bismarck's survivors - including the Baron - reportedly stated that Hood's gunnery against them was very impressive and she had found Bismarck's range. They felt if she had been able to get off another salvo Bismarck might have recieved heavy damage!! We know now that Hood's shells probably never got anywhere near Bismarck.... unless they were talking of PoW....
Paul
The Board did however come to conclude that Hood was firing on Prinz Eugen.
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