Hits on Scharnhorst in final battle

[TTTT]

How many battleship, cruiser and torpedo hits did Scharnhorst take before she went under at the battle of North Cape?

From what I've read so far, most sources says 13 battleships hits (but I've also seen mentioned just 4), a similar (or slightly more) from light and heavy cruisers, and 11 torpedo hits from at least 24 torpedoes fired.

[dunmunro]

How many battleship, cruiser and torpedo hits did Scharnhorst take before she went under at the battle of North Cape?

From what I've read so far, most sources says 13 battleships hits (but I've also seen mentioned just 4), a similar (or slightly more) from light and heavy cruisers, and 11 torpedo hits from at least 24 torpedoes fired.

No one can say with any certainty, barring a thorough examination of the wreck. I'd say offhand that there were fewer torpedo hits than stated above.

[TTTT]

After Scharnhorst had been slowed down, the following torpedoes were fired at her:

Destroyers Savage, Saumarez, Stord and Scorpion fired 8 torpedoes, scoring two hits on the starboard side and three hits on her port side.

Due to these torpedo hits, Scharnhorst's speed fell to 10 kn,

Cruisers Jamaica and Belfast fired their remaining torpedoes at the slowing target, numbers unknown.

Scharnhorst's end came when the British destroyers Opportune, Virago, Musketeer and Matchless fired a further 19 torpedoes at her and hit her several times.

So, probably at least 30+ torpedoes fired - and as many were fire at a target that was barely moving, it probably means that many from the cruisers and last group of destroyers hit as well?

[TTTT]

Update from the reply above.

After Scharnhorst had been slowed down, the following torpedoes were fired at her:

Destroyers Savage, Saumarez, Stord and Scorpion fired 8 torpedoes, scoring two hits on starboard side and three hits on port side (others sources says four hits in total).

Due to these torpedo hits, Scharnhorst's speed fell to 10 knots.

The light cruiser Jamaica then fired 6 torpedoes, of which two hit.

The light cruiser Belfast also fired 6 torpedoes, of which unknown number hit. Other sources says Belfast was about to fire, but Scharnhorst disappeared before it could be done.

Scharnhorst's end came when the British destroyers Opportune, Virago, Musketeer and Matchless fired a further 19 torpedoes at her and hit her multiple times.

So, 33-39(!) torpedoes fired - and as many were launched at a target that was barely moving, it probably means that many from last group of destroyers hit home.

[dunmunro]

Update from the reply above.

After Scharnhorst had been slowed down, the following torpedoes were fired at her:

Destroyers Savage, Saumarez, Stord and Scorpion fired 8 torpedoes, scoring two hits on starboard side and three hits on port side (others sources says four hits in total).

Due to these torpedo hits, Scharnhorst's speed fell to 10 knots.

The light cruiser Jamaica then fired 6 torpedoes, of which two hit.

The light cruiser Belfast also fired 6 torpedoes, of which unknown number hit. Other sources says Belfast was about to fire, but Scharnhorst disappeared before it could be done.

Scharnhorst's end came when the British destroyers Opportune, Virago, Musketeer and Matchless fired a further 19 torpedoes at her and hit her multiple times.

So, 33-39(!) torpedoes fired - and as many were launched at a target that was barely moving, it probably means that many from last group of destroyers hit home.

I've reviewed the damage that Scharnhorst class ships suffered from single torpedo 21 and 18in torpedo hits and from that it seems very unlikely that she could take 5 hits from 21in torpedoes and continue steaming at 10 knots. Also by Dec 1943 the RN was using torpex warheads which were much more destructive than the earlier TNT warheads.

It was common for destroyers to claim more torpedo hits than they actually scored, especially in adverse weather and visibility.

[TTTT]

Maybe she wasn't "steaming", but just slowly moving forward and about to stop. Even so 10 knots is barely moving forward at the speed of a jogging human.

Anyway,19 torpedoes at short range against a target that is barely moving, should at least result in a few hits.

[Byron Angel]

I've reviewed the damage that Scharnhorst class ships suffered from single torpedo 21 and 18in torpedo hits and from that it seems very unlikely that she could take 5 hits from 21in torpedoes and continue steaming at 10 knots. Also by Dec 1943 the RN was using torpex warheads which were much more destructive than the earlier TNT warheads.

The importance of Torpex in improving underwater naval weapon effectiveness (particularly in ASW applications) is IMO worthy of special attention ..... as is the tortuous history behind the RN's ultimately successful effort to gain access to it (RAF Bomber Command basically held a monopoly on Torpex production output in the early war years).

A very fine article on this topic can be found in the International Journal of Naval History -
https://www.ijnhonline.org/torpex-and-t ... c-victory/

Byron

[dunmunro]

I've reviewed the damage that Scharnhorst class ships suffered from single torpedo 21 and 18in torpedo hits and from that it seems very unlikely that she could take 5 hits from 21in torpedoes and continue steaming at 10 knots. Also by Dec 1943 the RN was using torpex warheads which were much more destructive than the earlier TNT warheads.

The importance of Torpex in improving underwater naval weapon effectiveness (particularly in ASW applications) is IMO worthy of special attention ..... as is the tortuous history behind the RN's ultimately successful effort to gain access to it (RAF Bomber Command basically held a monopoly on Torpex production output in the early war years).

A very fine article on this topic can be found in the International Journal of Naval History -
https://www.ijnhonline.org/torpex-and-t ... c-victory/

Byron

Thanks.

[paul.mercer]

Gentlemen,
Some years ago, the wreck of Scharnhorst was found, I believe she is upside down with her bow blown off, so I wonder if any particular details such as torpedo hits were taken when the wreck was investigated?

[Thorsten Wahl]

I've reviewed the damage that Scharnhorst class ships suffered from single torpedo.

Wich sources did you use?

[dunmunro]

I've reviewed the damage that Scharnhorst class ships suffered from single torpedo.

Wich sources did you use?

Mainly G&D's Axis Battleships and Koop's Battleships of the Scharnhorst Class.

[paul.mercer]

Gentlemen,
Re my last post regarding the wreck of Scharnhorst being found a number of years ago, does anyone know if any further visits have been made to the site?
Also, re her moving at 10 knots I wonder if she was moving under power at all or just drifting rapidly in the gale?
With regard to the torpedoes fired at her, surely even if only a third of the 30+ torpedoes fired at her hit, they would have almost blown the bottom out of her.

[TTTT]

According to Wikipedia, she was actually still doing 20 knots after the first 4-5 torpedo hits. It would seem like German capital ships were relatively well protected against torpedoes, probably because of the high number of watertight compartments?

[TTTT]

I guess some torpedoes from the last group also hit her when she already was sinking.

[dunmunro]

You can read in this account that the number of torpedo hits is highly conjectural;

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/L ... /38038.pdf