Design 1047

[RF]

Design 1047 was an outline design of a battlecruiser for the Royal Dutch Navy based on an improved Scharhorst classe design (see page 4 of ''offensive vs defensive'').

Given my suggested preference for an enlarged Scharnhorst classe design for my ideal battleship, it would appear that this design is what I would be looking for, except that triple 16 inch turrets, heavier secondary armament and armoured protection would be needed. Would it be technically feasible for such a vessel to be constructed to the same displacement as Bismarck?

Any comments anybody?

If the timescale of the Kriegsmarine construction was put back one or two years along with say the start of WW2, would it have been feasible for the Germans to have constructed Scharnhorst on the basis of this design model?

Presumably from an engineering point this design would have been suitable for diesel drive rather than turbines? Would the diesel technology of 1939/1940 have enabled the Germans to use exclusive diesel drive?

Looking at the picture would I be right in thinking that Design 1047 is likely to suffer the same problem as the Scharnhorst classe of shipping a large volume of seawater over its bows?

[Tiornu]

Scharnhorst as the starting point of an ideal ship--all we have to do is modernize and increase her armor, give greater machinery reliability, modernize the TDS and remove the flawed bulkhead joint, upgrade the habitability, increase her range, and triple her weight of broadside. So why do we want to start with Scharnhorst? We'd also have to remedy her overloading, fix her seakeeping, get some decent DP guns. Scharnhorst is probably the least ideal ship commissioned by anyone after 1930.
A ship of Bismarck's size with nine 16in guns instead of eight 15in guns? Obviously no. When the Germans wanted to put 16in guns on a battleship they managed to get only eight of them onto 52,000+ tons.
If you're looking for something well-rounded and ideal, perhaps you might want to consider starting with something French. The next project after Richelieu would have had pretty much all the qualities of the "improved Scharnhorst" described above except weaponry--"only" nine 15in guns and a Richelieu-esque split secondary--on a displacement of 40,000 tons.

[ontheslipway]

This hasn't got anything to do with the design 1047.

[Lutscha]

But Tiornu is right by saying that an optimised German design won´t give you the best result.

Tha best choice is imo the Gascogne. She was better in almost every respect than H-39 and much smaller.

[RF]

Is there an available plan for the Gascoinge?

[Lutscha]

The original plans have just surfaced: http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... 92.15.html

You´ll have to register to read the thread and can ask in English if you want to.

[RF]

Thanks, I will take a look.

[RF]

Does anyone know if the detailed designs for the 1047 ship were actually published? I have the quoted info on the main armament but not any detailed specifications of the rest of the ship such as armour, propulsion, displacement etc.

[lwd]

I think there were plans in Battleships and Battlecruisers of the World (I may have the title slitly wrong) but I don't know there providence.

[Tiornu]

The most detailed information is in an old WI article:
Noot, Jurrien S. “Battlecruiser Designs Studies for the Royal Netherlands Navy 1939 40.” Warship International, Vol. 17, No. 3, 1980, pp 242-273.
The design was never finalized, so you can't pinpoint some specifics.

[RF]

Thanks for the info Tiornu.