Panzerschiff Deutschland - Radar installations

[hans zurbriggen]

Hello,
re-reading Koop-Schmolke, I was very surprised to find that (according to authors) Deutschland was carrying a prototype radar already since autumn 1937, when I was convinced that the first capital ship to receive one was Admiral Graf Spee in late 1938.

Koop-Schmolke say that radar was a FuMG 39 (go) and that its antenna was a 0.8 x 1.8 meters one placed on the rotating cupola of main top rangefinder. Regarding radar identification I guess they are wrong as '39' should identify year of production, therefore no installation was possible already in 1937. Also, antenna dimensions sound a bit odd to me. According authors, antenna was removed when in harbor and covered by a tarpaulin only during Deutschland stay in Vigo (22-27 September 1938). This information is apparently confirmed on NavWeaps site (German Radars article from Erwin F. Sieche: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_Radar.php)

This installation would have been replaced by a FuMO 22 version in second half of 1939 (this one could have been a FuMG 39 (go) version) with a 6x2 meters antenna (again odd measure for a FuMO 22).
All photos I have available show a 4x2 meters (my estimation) antenna, covered by a tarpaulin but they are all from late 1939 on (possibly all referred to Lützow and not anymore to Deutschland, strictly speaking).

Could anyone confirm the presence on board Deutschland of a prototype radar since 1937 and provide evidence/details about such installation (wl, prf, performances, etc.) or just disprove Koop-Schmolke about such 'early' radar ?

hans

[wadinga]

Hi Hans,

A book called Gema: Birthplace of German Radar and Sonar by Harry von Kroge might be your best source. From the pages available via Google "Look Inside" trials of naval radar (initially called EM-2 Entfernungsmessgerat) were demonstrated to Raeder, Carls and Witzell as early as 26 September 1935 using Welle and Bremse as target vessels from a shore tower. Later an antenna group and the rest of the system was installed aboard Welle for successful seaborne trials.

It was decided to move ahead as fast as possible, and because the codename gave away too much it was to be described as Dezimetre Telegraphie Gerat which might confuse the enemy by thinking it was communication equipment. Hence DeTe Gerat, often used for these early radars.

It seems to me it might be quite possible that Deutschland was equipped with some kind of pre-production DeTe in 1937 just as Koop and Schmolke say. Gerhard Hepke with whom we are both familiar, mentions the 1935 trials. He also says a Seetakt was used in "fall 1937" in military manoeuvres at Swinemunde.

The model number/year of production argument seems spurious. Was a FuMO 22 produced in 1922?

Good luck in uncovering more information.

All the best

wadinga

[hans zurbriggen]

Hello Mr.Wadinga,
thanks for pointing me to von Kroge book. I will try to get one, however it looks quite an expensive one. Does anybody has it and can recommend ?

FuMO numbers were introduced later during the war, and they don't refer to year of production. However, afaik, the initial FuMG designation numbers are referring to the year of production.
Also, I have never seen any photo showing a radar antenna on board of any big German ship before 1939.

hans

[hans zurbriggen]

Hello,
I still see various sources claiming Deutschland was equipped with an experimental radar set during 1937, despite lack of any photografic evidence.
May a different wavelenght of this set (vs standard Seetakt 80 cm) be the reason why its antenna was quite smaller (as reported by Koop-Schmolke) ?

Anyway, afaik, a German radar equipped warship in 1937 was a huge (historically unrecognized) technological advantage vs every foreign Navy.

hans

edit: having looked at all photos I have, I would say that first standard Seetakt FuMO 22 (FuMG 39) was installed on board Deutschland only in late 1939 (or more probably in early 1940) because first available images showing a 4x2 antenna seem to belong to 1939-1940 winter (see below), while for sure same antenna was present during 'Weserübung' operation, Norway invasion, april 1940).
I do not have any photo showing any kind of antenna before December 1939 (even if censored images might not show it).

Lützow winter 1939-40.jpg (72.7 KiB) Viewed 1358 times

[dunmunro]

Hello,
I still see various sources claiming Deutschland was equipped with an experimental radar set during 1937, despite lack of any photografic evidence.
May a different wavelenght of this set (vs standard Seetakt 80 cm) be the reason why its antenna was quite smaller (as reported by Koop-Schmolke) ?

Anyway, afaik, a German radar equipped warship in 1937 was a huge (historically unrecognized) technological advantage vs every foreign Navy.

hans

edit: having looked at all photos I have, I would say that first standard Seetakt FuMO 22 (FuMG 39) was installed on board Deutschland only in late 1939 (or more probably in early 1940) because first available images showing a 4x2 antenna seem to belong to 1939-1940 winter (see below), while for sure same antenna was present during 'Weserübung' operation, Norway invasion, april 1940).
I do not have any photo showing any kind of antenna before December 1939 (even if censored images might not show it).


Lützow winter 1939-40.jpg

The RN's first prototype radar to be trialed at sea was a Type 79x aboard HMS Saltburn in Oct 1936. HMS Sheffield had a Type 79Y in Sept 1938.

[Thorsten Wahl]

Adm. Graf Spee definately had a Fumo for firecontrol purposes.
[https://www.kbismarck.org/forum/downloa ... hp?id=2633]

[hans zurbriggen]

Hello Mr.Dunmunro,
thanks for this info. Before looking into this aspect, I was thinking that first sea radars appeared in 1938 on board AGS (thanks to Mr. Wahl for confirming), but I stand corrected. It looks like 1936 was the year of first installations on British ships and 1937 on German ones.

hans