new battleships!!! in our era

miro777 · Post by **miro777** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:21 pm

hey...
there is this crazy idea i have...
wat do u think about havin a battleship

with for turrents with rocket loaders.
with enough anti aircraft protection

why couldn't the REAL ship take over the seas again

i must say i really dislike the idea of an aircraft carrier being the biggest naval unit

alone the word carrier is a disgrace to all naval interested ppl

wat do u think?

miro

marcelo_malara · Post by **marcelo_malara** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:48 pm

Hi Miro:

Your question is very similar as the one made by Karl about the nuclear powered Iowas. My answer is:

1) As its name implies, the battleship was supposed to deal with other warships. Today the best way to deal with other warship is with an aircraft.

2) In spite of all the anti-aircraft armament you put on board, there are many weapons that can be a serious hazard for them, including nuclear-tipped antiship missiles (sea skimmers and ballistics) and guided torpedoes.

miro777 · Post by **miro777** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:55 am

hey

what if would leave the nuclear power out.
which is not something for the future anyways.

so lets say, they would build in the power plant the new German submarines use.

wat about that?

miro

ontheslipway · Post by **ontheslipway** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:51 am

We already have that ship. It's called frigate. Looks a bit like this:

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:32 pm

Nothing can match a USN Nimitz class aircraft carrier nowerdays.

They RULE the waves.

miro777 · Post by **miro777** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:34 pm

hey...
i know the frigate...hehe

but wat i mean is that there are no big guns or turrents

of course guns are not useful in these days anymore, but why not exchange the big guns with rocket turrents?

miro

Karl Heidenreich · Post by **Karl Heidenreich** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:27 pm

Modern day warships are not big, are not beautiful, are not power projecting and resemble a shoe box. I don´t give a damm to those, except for the Kirov Class Nuclear Powered Battlecruiser (quite a name, eh,

).
An aircraft carrier is a very big target that can be swept by the proper combination of airpower and sub forces. Without any side or deck armour it depends on the theory that radar, AWACS and her escorts would defeat the danger or absorb the damage. No like good old BBs, that they made the fighting and absorb the damage themselves, worthy and honorable ships.
An aircraft carrier could be worthy fighting the iraquis (that didn´t had a comparable navy) or Vietnam (just PT boats) but in a fight against a serious enemy (let´s see: fighting for Taiwan against the Reds or against the ruskies), I would not like to be on board of one of them.
As a matter of fact the aircraft carriers haven´t seen real danger in combat (as in Coral Sea, Midway or Leyte) since WWII.

My heart is with the BBs and BCs, the boilers, the optical fire directors, many propellers, and huge guns. I believe I was borned in the wrong era.

miro777 · Post by **miro777** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:29 pm

u speak my words....

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:36 pm

I agree Karl.

Modern destroyers/frigates are not ships.
They are over grown bath tubs with lots of electronic equipment.

BB's and BC's are real ships.

Give me a BB or BC anyday

Karl Heidenreich · Post by **Karl Heidenreich** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Gary´and Miro,

I´m glad you agree with me. My dad, who really saw BBs and BCs in the 40s and 50s kept telling me about how marvelous are the new warships.
I really don´t see any wonder in them: computers, screens, radar arrays, some invisible missile launch pad that hides into the foredeck, etc. etc.

Warships are like the HMS Victory, the Constitution, the Warrior, the Mikasa, the Dreadnought or Hood...
Give me a bit steel hull with an impressive superstructure, huge turrets with enormous guns and then, presto!, we have a real warship.

I don´t understand why a country may be proud of a floating shoebox or condensed milk can?

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:28 pm

Hi again Karl

Even a WW2 cruiser is better than a modern ship.

The cruiser had moderate armour and 6 or 8 inch guns

They DONT make ships like they used to

miro777 · Post by **miro777** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:30 pm

maybe im going to far...
but don't u think even a WW2 destroyer was a better ship than a frigate now...

its all so technical...there is no fight anymore...

its all so certain, there is humaness in the fight anymore...

adios
miro

Bgile · Post by **Bgile** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:07 pm

I have a lot of appreciation for the WWI and WWII ships, but I also feel good about SOME modern ships as well.

Have any of you ever seen a Burke class destroyer up close or in profile? They are beautiful ships. Usually you see a photo that is taken from a distance at the front profile and is squashed by the telephoto lense and it doesn't do them justice at all. They are much lower in profile than the Spruance class destroyers or the Tico class missile cruisers. If you see them tied up together the Burke is much lower and doesn't look top heavy like the others. At high speed they generate a roostertail that extends several feet above the fantail. They are really quite graceful.

Yes, they involve a lot of technical stuff, but there is still a lot of seamanship involved. It's just a different era.

How do you think the guys who sailed in the "wooden ships and iron men" era would feel about your WWII ships? The same way, I think.

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:57 pm

Hi Bgile

How do you think the guys who sailed in the "wooden ships and iron men" era would feel about your WWII ships? The same way, I think.

I think Horatio Nelson would have been drooling at the mouth.

Think what even 1 Tribal class Destroyer could have done to a fleet of wooden sailing ships

Bgile · Post by **Bgile** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:43 pm

Gary wrote:Hi Bgile

How do you think the guys who sailed in the "wooden ships and iron men" era would feel about your WWII ships? The same way, I think.
I think Horatio Nelson would have been drooling at the mouth.

Think what even 1 Tribal class Destroyer could have done to a fleet of wooden sailing ships

I think that is not consistent with your prior statement that you consider WWII ships to be superior to modern ones. One Burke class destroyer could sink a fleet of Tribal class destroyers. :)

I was just saying that sailors of that era might thing that WWII ships relied too much on technology and weren't real fighting men.