Hood at Jutland

[paul.mercer]

Gentlemen, The discussion over whether HMS hood was the most powerful ship seems to have drifted into a debate about Jutland!
I realise of course that Hood was not laid down until 1916 and she was undoubtedly a powerful ship, but to combine the two debates, how would she have fared if she had been in the battlecruiser line at Jutland?
I believe that her armour was similar to the QE class battleships whose 15" guns did a lot of damage to the German ships, but in turn took quite a number of hits, particularly HMS Warspite, so was Hood likely to suffer the same fate as she did in the Denmark Strait or would the German guns not be powerful enough to penetrate her magazine?

[Byron Angel]

Gentlemen, The discussion over whether HMS hood was the most powerful ship seems to have drifted into a debate about Jutland!
I realise of course that Hood was not laid down until 1916 and she was undoubtedly a powerful ship, but to combine the two debates, how would she have fared if she had been in the battlecruiser line at Jutland?
I believe that her armour was similar to the QE class battleships whose 15" guns did a lot of damage to the German ships, but in turn took quite a number of hits, particularly HMS Warspite, so was Hood likely to suffer the same fate as she did in the Denmark Strait or would the German guns not be powerful enough to penetrate her magazine?

Hi Paul,
My feeling is that she would have been a very powerful addition to the BCF, provided that she was operated as part of, or in conjunction with, one of the three existing BC squadrons. My concern would be Beatty's temptation to take her for his flagship and turn over Lion to 1BCS. I fear the temptation to press ahead at 30+ kts would have been too much for Beatty's impetuous nature to resist ..... which is how he got himself into trouble at Dogger Bank.

Whether the appearance of Hood would have prodded the Germans into completing one of their own high-speed BC projects in response is another interesting question.

Strictly my opinion, of course.

Byron

[paul.mercer]

Thanks Byron,
I believe that after the BC disasters at Jutland the RN ordered another 5000 tons of armour to be added in Hood's construction, had she been at Jutland in her original form I think she may well have suffered the same fate as the others, particularly as you suggested, Beatty might well have used her speed to go charging into battle without the others to support her.
if she had fought in her 'as built' form with the extra armour, I wonder if the German 12" shells would have penetrated her magazine?

[HMSVF]

Gentlemen, The discussion over whether HMS hood was the most powerful ship seems to have drifted into a debate about Jutland!
I realise of course that Hood was not laid down until 1916 and she was undoubtedly a powerful ship, but to combine the two debates, how would she have fared if she had been in the battlecruiser line at Jutland?
I believe that her armour was similar to the QE class battleships whose 15" guns did a lot of damage to the German ships, but in turn took quite a number of hits, particularly HMS Warspite, so was Hood likely to suffer the same fate as she did in the Denmark Strait or would the German guns not be powerful enough to penetrate her magazine?

Hi Paul,
My feeling is that she would have been a very powerful addition to the BCF, provided that she was operated as part of, or in conjunction with, one of the three existing BC squadrons. My concern would be Beatty's temptation to take her for his flagship and turn over Lion to 1BCS. I fear the temptation to press ahead at 30+ kts would have been too much for Beatty's impetuous nature to resist ..... which is how he got himself into trouble at Dogger Bank.

Whether the appearance of Hood would have prodded the Germans into completing one of their own high-speed BC projects in response is another interesting question.

Strictly my opinion, of course.

Byron

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

IMHO the "problem" would be Hood's speed. You just get the feeling that Beatty would push too far on,would end up further south than historical and end up being munched by the HSF before the "run to the north". Sort of like when somebody buys a 500hp, rear wheeled car with a live axle. You just know that they will push the throttle to the floor at some point. What the end result is comes down to luck, but you would get good odds on them ended up in a hedge.

Now if you had the other 3 "Admirals" in your squadron...

But that's a whole different timeline worthy of a Star Trek episode!

If you had a more cautious commander then wouldn't Hood be tied to the speeds of the other 3 "Cats" in any case ? Anywhere between 27 to 29knots?

Would Horace Hood in HMS Hood been a more decisive factor? Horace Hood likely nobbled Lützow with the 3rd BC squadron with the 3 Invincible's before being blown to kingdom come. Had he been in HMS Hood then Hipper would have been deep inn the brown stuff. I would say it would be unlikely that HMS Hood would have gone the same way (or as quickly) as HMS Invincible.


Of course the variables required for such a scenario to exist would require a TARDIS.


BW


HMSVF

[HMSVF]

Gentlemen, The discussion over whether HMS hood was the most powerful ship seems to have drifted into a debate about Jutland!
I realise of course that Hood was not laid down until 1916 and she was undoubtedly a powerful ship, but to combine the two debates, how would she have fared if she had been in the battlecruiser line at Jutland?
I believe that her armour was similar to the QE class battleships whose 15" guns did a lot of damage to the German ships, but in turn took quite a number of hits, particularly HMS Warspite, so was Hood likely to suffer the same fate as she did in the Denmark Strait or would the German guns not be powerful enough to penetrate her magazine?

Hi Paul,
My feeling is that she would have been a very powerful addition to the BCF, provided that she was operated as part of, or in conjunction with, one of the three existing BC squadrons. My concern would be Beatty's temptation to take her for his flagship and turn over Lion to 1BCS. I fear the temptation to press ahead at 30+ kts would have been too much for Beatty's impetuous nature to resist ..... which is how he got himself into trouble at Dogger Bank.

Whether the appearance of Hood would have prodded the Germans into completing one of their own high-speed BC projects in response is another interesting question.

Strictly my opinion, of course.

Byron

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

IMHO the "problem" would be Hood's speed. You just get the feeling that Beatty would push too far on,would end up further south than historical and end up being munched by the HSF before the "run to the north". Sort of like when somebody buys a 500hp, rear wheeled car with a live axle. You just know that they will push the throttle to the floor at some point. What the end result is comes down to luck, but you would get good odds on them ended up in a hedge.

Now if you had the other 3 "Admirals" in your squadron...

But that's a whole different timeline worthy of a Star Trek episode!

If you had a more cautious commander then wouldn't Hood be tied to the speeds of the other 3 "Cats" in any case ? Anywhere between 27 to 29knots?

Would Horace Hood in HMS Hood been a more decisive factor? Horace Hood likely nobbled Lützow with the 3rd BC squadron with the 3 Invincible's before being blown to kingdom come. Had he been in HMS Hood then Hipper would have been deep inn the brown stuff. I would say it would be unlikely that HMS Hood would have gone the same way (or as quickly) as HMS Invincible.


Of course the variables required for such a scenario to exist would require a TARDIS.


BW


HMSVF

[Byron Angel]

Hi HMSVF,
Your post just smacked me "upside the head" with something that I had never before thought about.
When exactly was HMS Hood formally named? Did it have anything to do with Admiral Hood's heroic death at Jutland?

Or was it simply a sort of cosmic coincidence?

B

[HMSVF]

I thought that HMS Hood was named after Samuel Hood - an admiral from the age of sail. Whether Horace Hood was a relation I don’t know. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was though.


Big loss to the RN (Horace Hood) in my honest opinion. Had HMS Invincible not been blown to kingdom come then I could see him doing very well in the post war years.

[wadinga]

Hi All,

HMS Hood was indeed apparently named for Admiral Samuel Hood 1724-1816, and Horace Hood, killed at Jutland, was his great-great grandson.

Hull no 460 to be built at John Brown's yard on Clydebank was named by the Admiralty Ship Branch as HMS Hood on 16th July 1916, with her sisters building at other yards, to be named Rodney, Anson and Howe. Hood's keel was laid on 1st September 1916. None of the others were completed. Battlecruiser Hood was launched on 22nd August 1918, being christened in the traditional manner by Horace's widow, Lady Ellen Hood (nee Touzalin, born in Iowa).

British naval history is crowded with the Hood family. There was Samuel's brother Sir Alexander Arthur Hood Viscount Bridport 1726-1814, who was Howe's subordinate at the Glorious First of June 1794, but then there was Vice Admiral Sir Samuel Hood 1st Baronet 1762-1814 and his brother Captain Alexander Hood 1758-1798. The latter died of wounds just as he was handed the surrendering captain's sword from the French 74 Hercule.

Then there was Arthur William Acland Hood, 1st Baron Hood of Avalon 1824-1901, grandson of the last named above, who rose though a distinguished career to become 1st Naval Lord and was responsible for the 1889 Naval Defence Act forcing through the development of a more modern fleet of vessels for Imperial Defence. Unusually, the battleship HMS Hood of 1889, built as part of this programme, was apparently named after him whilst he was still alive, and his wife christened the ship. Like her near sisters this ship had two side by side funnels. The bell from this vessel was subsequently passed to battlecruiser Hood, and was recovered recently from the bottom of the Denmark Straits and is currently at the RN Museum Portsmouth. The hull of the 1889 battleship was sunk as part of the breakwater in Weymouth Bay and is a popular diving location.

Whether any other name was in mind for hull 460 before she was named a month and a half after the poignant death of Horace Hood we may never know.

All the best

wadinga