alecsandros wrote:Panzer Lehr had 230-260 tanks on the 6th of June, sources vary.
99 Pz IV and 89 Panther on June 1st. A total of 188. You have to include the 40 Stug. to get the total of 228
alecsandros wrote:On the 1st of Aug, it had 20-40 operational tanks.
Now you switch to tanks alone despite earlier using figures for tanks AND Stug.
Figures on Aug 1st are 15 Panther, 12 Pz IV and 6 Stug. A further 17 vehicles were in short term repair. A grand total of 50.
alecsandros wrote:The lost and damaged tanks for ground fighting were 50-150, depending on the source. That further gives a total of 140-210 an-accounted for. Do you think they were lost to the alien attackers?
June 1st had ... 228 Tanks/Stug .......... June losses 52.
July 1st had... 177 tanks/Stug............July losses 100
Aug 1st had ... 77 tanks/Stug.
Aug 22 had ... 20 tanks.
The Cobra bombing of Lehr was on 24/25th July so you are claiming that the 100 tanks/Stug lost in July were ALL lost to bombing and not a single tank/Stug was lost to ground forces July 1st to August 1st?
That is absurd!
Helmut Ritgen, commander of Lehr's Pz IV battalion during the bombing states that no Pz IV's were hit( Die Gechichte Der Panzer-Lehr-Division Im Westen 1944-45, page 100) because they were in reserve and behind the bomb lines. This means ONLY Panthers and Stug. could have been bombed and Ritgen states very few of them were hit either. As the total of Panthers and Stug combined was 102 on July 1st then 100 from 102 Panthers and Stug were destroyed in a single day and only 2 on the other 3 weeks of intense combat in July. This leaves you with the problem that 35 Panthers and Stug were still in service on August 1st when there should be a maximum of 2 in service!.
However you look at it your claim of 100 tanks lost due to bombing just does not add up.
alecsandros wrote:I seem to find lots of material regarding Panzer Lehr both on the net and in several books (Eisenhower's and DeGaulle's memoirs, 2 books about the landings in Normandy, etc). As I've said earlier, sources vary,
With respect general history books written by Leaders are not really a source. A far better source would be Zetterling's book Normandy 1944 and he comprehensively refutes any claim that Lehr suffered substantial bombing losses in Normandy (pages 37-53)
alecsandros wrote: As far as I've read, the jabo attacks were very harsh, and constituted the main reason for the destruction of this elite division. Same for Das Reich and 21st Armoured.
Wrong. The studies found a max of 10% of tank losses were caused by air attack.
Karl Heidenreich wrote:
I have done that several times in the last two or three years.............. in case of need please feel free to do the proper research.
All I have seen show that you do not have the information. I have researched extensively and have a mound of references that completely refute any claim of 'massive Allied casualties or 5:1 tank kill ratios. Your refusal to give a source is revealing