Chaser Gun on Paddle Steamer

[AThompson]

Hi, all.

Below is an image of the chase gun, or forecastle gun, or (insert correct name here) on a model of the iron steam paddle steamer HMS Birkenhead.

My question, assuming the dimensions of this model are correct, how do you run out this gun?

I can't see a gunport in the bulwark/railings, and in addition it looks like you only have about 2 metres of play in the sled. It looks like the muzzle would be just aft of the forestays, which you can't shoot through, and indeed, it looks like whereever you place this gun you're aiming at stays or rigging of some kind, plus the bulwark/railings at in the way.

Any ideas?

Screenshot_20230609-002441_Chrome.jpg (102.01 KiB) Viewed 2120 times

[OpanaPointer]

You don't run it out. You try to avoid hitting your own ship.

[Steve Crandell]

If you google USS Kearsarge civil war you can follow the image links to some good pictures of her heavy Dahlgren guns. She carried two of them. They had more elaborate tracks so they could actually be moved close to one side of the ship for firing, but they were stowed on the centerline.

[Byron Angel]

If you google USS Kearsarge civil war you can follow the image links to some good pictures of her heavy Dahlgren guns. She carried two of them. They had more elaborate tracks so they could actually be moved close to one side of the ship for firing, but they were stowed on the centerline.

Zackly, Steve.
And these pivot guns were IMO more common in the post-Napoleonic 19thC than is commonly credited

Interesting thing about USS Keararge - At my last place of employment, the head of my department mentioned to me that an ancestor of his had served aboard USS Kearsarge and was present at her battle with the Confederate raider CSS Alabama. I ran down the crew list of USS Kearsarge for that battle and indeed found the fellow (same family surname), who was listed as gun captain of one of her 11-inch pivot guns.

Byron

[Byron Angel]

Hi, all.

Below is an image of the chase gun, or forecastle gun, or (insert correct name here) on a model of the iron steam paddle steamer HMS Birkenhead.

My question, assuming the dimensions of this model are correct, how do you run out this gun?

I can't see a gunport in the bulwark/railings, and in addition it looks like you only have about 2 metres of play in the sled. It looks like the muzzle would be just aft of the forestays, which you can't shoot through, and indeed, it looks like whereever you place this gun you're aiming at stays or rigging of some kind, plus the bulwark/railings at in the way.

Any ideas?

Screenshot_20230609-002441_Chrome.jpg

Hi AT,
The only thing I would add to previous responder comments is that the model does not necessarily appear (to me at least) to be an exact scale model.

One other comment - I would hazard a GUESS that, if the model is more or less a true representation of the original ship, the white ship's railing running around the forecastle might arguably have been struck when going into action. The gun's blast of discharge alone might easily do respectable injury to such a light railing.

Strictly my opinion, however.

B

[Steve Crandell]

If you google USS Kearsarge civil war you can follow the image links to some good pictures of her heavy Dahlgren guns. She carried two of them. They had more elaborate tracks so they could actually be moved close to one side of the ship for firing, but they were stowed on the centerline.

Zackly, Steve.
And these pivot guns were IMO more common in the post-Napoleonic 19thC than is commonly credited

Interesting thing about USS Keararge - At my last place of employment, the head of my department mentioned to me that an ancestor of his had served aboard USS Kearsarge and was present at her battle with the Confederate raider CSS Alabama. I ran down the crew list of USS Kearsarge for that battle and indeed found the fellow (same family surname), who was listed as gun captain of one of her 11-inch pivot guns.

Byron

He might very well be in one of those photos, then.

[wadinga]

Hi All,

I think is a conjectural model of HMS Birkenhead, which was one of the first iron hulled RN warships. However as answered elsewhere, these frigates were downgraded due to worries about fracturing under enemy fire. Re-designated as a troopship she was completed with a built up foc'stle she was the unfortunate star of a Victorian disaster when she struck an uncharted rock off South Africa. This is where the famous order "Women and Children First" originated and the troops stood fell in on the sinking stern as the ship went down. See Wikipedia or similar.

These pivoting centreline guns required the striking down of rails, re-routing of running rigging and in some cases sections of bulwark to fire, (Clear for Action) and then on very limited bearings. However ship's masters were used to the very limited firing arcs of the sailing ships' broadside batteries so could adapt easily. HMS Warrior and HMS Gannet at Chatham dockyard show similar set-ups.

From HMS Devastation on, it was realised than masts and sails had no place on the modern warship, and so many obstructions disappeared, but examination of even WWII warships will show striking down the stanchions and rails was necessary before main deck turrets could fire.

All the best

wadinga

[Byron Angel]

If you google USS Kearsarge civil war you can follow the image links to some good pictures of her heavy Dahlgren guns. She carried two of them. They had more elaborate tracks so they could actually be moved close to one side of the ship for firing, but they were stowed on the centerline.

Zackly, Steve.
And these pivot guns were IMO more common in the post-Napoleonic 19thC than is commonly credited

Interesting thing about USS Keararge - At my last place of employment, the head of my department mentioned to me that an ancestor of his had served aboard USS Kearsarge and was present at her battle with the Confederate raider CSS Alabama. I ran down the crew list of USS Kearsarge for that battle and indeed found the fellow (same family surname), who was listed as gun captain of one of her 11-inch pivot guns.

Byron

He might very well be in one of those photos, then.

It would not at all surprise me, Steve.

Byron

[marcelo_malara]

As the casting technologies allowed heavier guns, the builders were unable to mount the old batteries with the heavier new guns. So a few big bore heavy guns were mounted on deck, pivot mounted as in the model, retaining side guns in wheel carriages in less numbers. This is seen in Warrior, Kearsage, Alabama and other ships of the period. One risk of the age of sail was that the fire of discharge will put on fire some part of the ship, specially the rigging. But towards the 1850s, most hemp for the standing rigging had been replaced by wire rigging, diminishing the risk of fire and allowing higher masts.

[Literalman]

The inability to fire forward reminds me of a visit to the battleship New Jersey. There was a huge antenna mounted on the deck near the bow. I asked the docent how the main battery could be fired straight ahead, and he answered that the main battery was never fired straight ahead.

[Steve Crandell]

The inability to fire forward reminds me of a visit to the battleship New Jersey. There was a huge antenna mounted on the deck near the bow. I asked the docent how the main battery could be fired straight ahead, and he answered that the main battery was never fired straight ahead.

That antenna didn't exist in WWII, and two of the class fired in pursuit of an IJN DD, where I assume they fired over the bow.

[OpanaPointer]

The forward guns didn't fire straight forward because the teak* decks would be damaged or just disappear.

* when they were installed.

[AThompson]

Thanks for all the answers, guys.

See, that's the trouble with a model, you never really know if it's a true definition or not.

The striking of forward rails makes sense to me, but blimey! They had to reposition standing rigging for it to fire? That must of been fun. How do you even change the position of rigging on the go?

[marcelo_malara]

Thanks for all the answers, guys.

See, that's the trouble with a model, you never really know if it's a true definition or not.

The striking of forward rails makes sense to me, but blimey! They had to reposition standing rigging for it to fire? That must of been fun. How do you even change the position of rigging on the go?

I don´t think it was done. Just pointing the bow some degrees in other direction will do the trick.

[OpanaPointer]

Thanks for all the answers, guys.

See, that's the trouble with a model, you never really know if it's a true definition or not.

The striking of forward rails makes sense to me, but blimey! They had to reposition standing rigging for it to fire? That must of been fun. How do you even change the position of rigging on the go?

I don´t think it was done. Just pointing the bow some degrees in other direction will do the trick.

Beat me to it. "Fire as your guns bear!" doesn't allow you to break the boat.