Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

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Kev D
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Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by Kev D »

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant. HMS Repulse. Dec. 8 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
paul.mercer
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Re: Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by paul.mercer »

Its interesting to see that the stern has snapped off, like Bismarck and I think Prince Eugen, was there something faulty in the building or the design of these ships?
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Re: Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by Kev D »

paul.mercer wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:18 am Its interesting to see that the stern has snapped off, like Bismarck and I think Prince Eugen, was there something faulty in the building or the design of these ships?
Not Prinz Eugen. You must be thinking of another ship.

See image below from Wiki.
Prinz-Eugen-wreck-2018.jpg
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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant. HMS Repulse. Dec. 8 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
paul.mercer
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Re: Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by paul.mercer »

Kev D wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:38 am
paul.mercer wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:18 am Its interesting to see that the stern has snapped off, like Bismarck and I think Prince Eugen, was there something faulty in the building or the design of these ships?
Not Prinz Eugen. You must be thinking of another ship.

See image below from Wiki.
Prinz-Eugen-wreck-2018.jpg
I think it might have been Lutzow, but it does make me wonder if there was a fundamental design fault in the sterns of German warships.
paul.mercer
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Re: Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by paul.mercer »

On investigation, PE did lose her stern in a torpedo attack
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wadinga
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Re: Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by wadinga »

Fellow Contributors,

Unfortunately you gentlemen have been off on a wild goose chase. And it turns out it was't even a goose.

It is the bow which is separated from the Karlsruhe wreck. These cruisers had a single turret forward and two aft. The spectacular Nazi Eagle and Swastika structure on her stern transom has survived on the wreck.

Karlsruhe was torpedoed whilst zigzagging at 21 knots escorted by Greif, Seeadler and Luchs, by HM submarine Truant, nearly amidships on the starboard side which caused uncontrollable flooding. The escorting torpedo boats drove off Truant, causing some damage, whilst the cruiser's crew was evacuated. Torpedo boat Greif fired a scuttling torpedo which blew the bows off but did not hasten the sinking enough and second German torpedo hit was required.

Karlsruhe had been involved in the attack on Kristiansand on the 9th of April 1940 and was on her way home, the same day, when she was sunk. There was some criticism of inadequate damage control, and a hope she might have been saved.

Some uninformed internet sources have confused the liner Karlsruhe sunk off Poland in early 1945 during refugee evacuations before the Soviet onslaught, with this cruiser simply because they have the same name.

HM submarine Spearfish likewise caught out Panzerschiffe Lutzow on her return from the unprovoked assault on neutral Norway and her torpedo hits caused this ship's stern to collapse, disabling propulsion and steering. German salvage crews got the ship home and many months were required for repair.

Prinz Eugen did suffer a stern collapse in Norwegian waters after a torpedo hit in 1942 and after a temporary repair with an emergency transom and jury rudders sailed home where a new stern, the one visible on the upturned wreck in the Pacific, was fitted. Bill Jurens has been involved in discussions about potential aft-end weaknesses in German warship design on this site in the past.

All the best

wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
paul.mercer
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Re: Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by paul.mercer »

Many thanks for the post Wadinga, you really are a mine of information, perhaps i will work out how to tell my bow from my stern in future!
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Re: Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by Kev D »

wadinga wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:59 pm Fellow Contributors,

Unfortunately you gentlemen have been off on a wild goose chase. And it turns out it was't even a goose.

It is the bow which is separated from the Karlsruhe wreck.
Hi Wadinga,

No offense meant, and with all due respect, but I simply thought that it was self evident from the image of the wreck in the first post that it was the bow that was broken off (from Karlsruhe). After all, the bridge / main superstructure stands out like the proverbial dogs bollocks, no?  :shock:

If that omission in my reply to Paul re Prinz Eugen was misconstrued, my aplogies.
We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant. HMS Repulse. Dec. 8 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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wadinga
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Re: Wreck of German cruiser Karlsruhe found / ID'd off Norway

Post by wadinga »

Hi Kev D,

And no offence taken. :ok: It was only because this "weak stern" business has been around for ages that I was surprised to things heading off at a tangent. The sonar image is indeed fantastically-detailed, the site is better for your post. It is interesting to see a section of fo'csle deck plating has peeled back from the explosion to half cover the forward guns. It must have been disappointing for the torpedo dept that Greif's initial "coup de Grace" delivered against a stationary target, at presumably point-blank range, nearly missed completely and only blew off the bow.

I see the excellent webmaster has already added the wreck's identification to the ship's history. http://www.kbismarck.com/karlsruhe.html

Les conneries du chien. Mais Oui, vous avez raison! :D

All the best

wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
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