What is Putin up to?

Military News and current conflicts. Middle East, Syria, Ukraine, etc.
Steve Crandell
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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Byron Angel wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:50 pm
Steve Crandell wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:32 am
Byron Angel wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:12 am Don't kid yourselves, gentlemen. Ukraine under the Zelensky/Kolomoisky regime has been an under-the-table stalking horse member of NATO since 2014.

Byron
And this is all organized by the "Deep State" or the Illuminati, or some such? The great secret cabal which controls everything?
No,Steve. Nothing remotely so romantically imaginative.
It’s just another step in the long-term scheme by the US/EU/NATO to collapse Russia, dismantle it, digest the remnants and take control of its highly valuable natural resources for the benefit of “western interests”.

It’s not really much of a “secret plot”. See John Mearsheimer, who has commented that this has been openly discussed within NATO over a number of years since the collapse of the USSR. The 2014,installation of the Zelensky regime (by coup d’etat) was the latest step until Putin upset their apple cart.

And to answer your next question before you ask it, look into the eight years of abuse and terror endured by the ethnic Russians of the Donbas at the hands of the Ukrainian army and other NSDAP-style “paramilitary elements”.

Byron
I absolutely agree that there is a desire in the west to see Russia collapse again, but I don't think there is a "scheme" involved. It's just a common feeling that Russian administrations have been aggressive and caused a great deal of suffering in areas that matter to the people that live in the west. So, they do things that increase problems for Russia, just as the reverse is true. I don't believe there is a smoking room somewhere that leaders of the west get together and plan the next move to mess up Russia. Democracies are much too disorganized to do something like that.

I can remember a few years after the collapse of the Soviet Union we had an air show where I live that invited a Russian team with Mig-29s and how I felt wonderful that many of the world's conflicts had been solved and an era of peace was before us. And of course we dismantled a lot of our military. Then Russia again fell under the control of an authoritarian regime focused on restoring Russia to it's maximum level of control of territory in ages past. And supporting authoritarian regimes everywhere else.

And on it goes ...
Byron Angel
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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Steve wrote - "I absolutely agree that there is a desire in the west to see Russia collapse again, but I don't think there is a "scheme" involved."

Dear Steve,
The Federation of Russia poses ZERO threat to Europe. It has in fact been NATO (i.e. - US controlled NATO) that has steadily expanded EASTWARD toward the Russian Federation over the past twenty-odd years.

All I can recommend is that you really consider stepping outside the mass media government-controlled propaganda machine and undertaking a close and dispassionate examination of NATO/EU policy toward the Russian Federation since the collapse of the old Soviet Union. Start with John Mearsheimer, David MacGregor, Scott Ritter and Larry Johnson; all of them have decades of experience and knowledge as national security advisors at the highest levels of government. They are all quite candid about (and critical of) NATO intentions toward Russia - i.e. to isolate, destabilize, then seize power in Russia via installation of a puppet political regime (as per the example of the 2014 installation of the Zelensky regime in Ukraine).

The most impactful actions taken against Europe by the Russian Federation under Putin has been to: ( a ) supply cheap oil and natural gas; ( b ) supply large quantities of uranium to the European nuclear energy industry: ( c ) provide huge amounts of grains and other agricultural products to feed Europe (and Africa as well, for that matter). Russia also happens to be one of the world's largest producers of gold).

Russia built Nordstream I and II because Angela Merkel (leader of Germany at the time) approached Putin and begged him to participate in a project to supply oil and gas to Germany (and subsequently the EU). Putin agreed to do so and, built Nordstream 1 and was supplying huge amounts of cheap energy products to western Europe since 2011; Germany then talked Russia into building Nordstream 2, which would have more than doubled supply

NATO doesn't give a damn about Ukraine, except as a stalking horse against Russia; the true goal is to ultimately seize control of Russia and, by implication, the lucrative profits to be drawn from its abundant natural resources. That's not me speculating; that's what the above-mentioned gentlemen are postulating.

The next step is up to you. Good luck. This will be my last post on the topic.


Byron
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Dave Saxton
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.
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wadinga
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Re: What is Putin up to?

Post by wadinga »

Hi Steve,

It has been said:
the true goal is to ultimately seize control of Russia and, by implication, the lucrative profits to be drawn from its abundant natural resources. That's not me speculating; that's what the above-mentioned gentlemen are postulating.
I'm confused. Who exactly are the "above-mentioned gentlemen" who are postulating NATO is attempting to emulate, more successfully, Napoleon and Hitler?

Are they:
In 2013, Johnson falsely accused John Kerry of war crimes in Vietnam, alleging that Kerry had "raped some poor Vietnamese woman."[17] To support his claim, Johnson used a YouTube video[18] that contained audio clips from a 1971 debate on The Dick Cavett Show between John Kerry and John O'Neill. The original interview[19] audio[20] was altered to piece together words that Kerry spoke at different times during the debate, falsely making it sound as if he said, "I personally raped for pleasure." When the falsehood was exposed by a reader of Johnson's blog, Johnson deleted the article without apology.[21]
Thanks Wikipedia

Or Scott Rittter convicted sex criminal, who met his Georgian wife while working in Russia as a disarmament weapons inspector and has been enthusiastic supporter of Russian regimes ever since.

If
a close and dispassionate
examination of the others are as bad as these, their opinions are easily dismissed. Of course, I expect the
the mass media government-controlled propaganda machine
has made up lies about them. :cool:

As for the "encroachment" of NATO to the east, as soon as a little piggy gets clear of the wolf, he is bound to want to make friends with a bricklayer.

The Patriot article is interesting but solely American centric and written from an "America First" position, it fails to consider Putin's reinvention of himself as dictator within Russia and the elimination of any political rivals who might be elected to replace him. His railings against consumerism and liberalism of any form which might weaken the "moral values" of Russians is clear proof of his wish to turn back the clock. His deployment of assassins with indiscriminate weapons like Novichok in the UK and elsewhere exceeds the excesses of the Cold War. His demonization of Ukrainian politicians as Nazis or fascists is part of this nostalgia for the past, when they are no more corrupt than his own coterie of post-communist "carpetbagger" gargoyles.

As you said, for a number of years Russia had been a trading and co-operative ventures partner with the West, benefitting from technological advancements/exchanges and foreign earnings until Putin started his campaign to go back to the 1950's. I frequently go out to spot the shining symbol of that period of hopeful international co-operation, the ISS, as it passes overhead.

The sooner the Russian people realize that you cannot liberate Ukrainians by killing them or bombing them back to the Stone Age, and they don't want to be liberated anyway, and turn on Putin, the safer the world will be.

All the best

wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
Steve Crandell
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Re: What is Putin up to?

Post by Steve Crandell »

Hi Wadinga,

Do you want to seize control of Russia? I don't. No one I know of over here wants to own Russia. We would like to see them stop trying to gain control over the ex "republics" of the USSR.
paul.mercer
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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Hi Steve, Hi Wadinga,
"As for the "encroachment" of NATO to the east, as soon as a little piggy gets clear of the wolf, he is bound to want to make friends with a bricklayer."!
What a wonderful expression!
I don't think anyone wants to seize control of Russia, I think the world just wishes Putin was put back in his box, (either above or below ground) but I fear the only ones who could do would be his own people, his own military, or a combination of both as it would appear that his conscription idea is pretty unpopular and not too successful. His latest ploy of declaring 'martial law' on the areas of Ukraine, deporting people to Russia and employing 'forced' labour is not going to win him many friends and although it is difficult to judge the situation just from Western reports it would seem that many of his recruited troops are of rather poor quality. It is said that he is using 'drones' supplied by Iran, which I find remarkable as I would have thought that a big powerful county like Russia would be quite capable of making their own. As for reports of the army running short of munitions, again I find this somewhat difficult to believe bearing in mind that Russia has not been involved in a war for a long time and surely must have a plentiful supply.
Regarding NATO surrounding the Russian borders, I can see why it might cause concern in the Kremlin, but surely those countries have only joined NATO because of the fear of Russian expansion, I think Putin feels that the greatest threat might come from Finland who have a very large army and are not afraid to protect their borders, once they join NATO he will really feel hemmed in.
Let us all hope that the Russian people and their senior military men see the dangers of escalation into a nuclear war with the West and are prepared to
topple Putin before he goes too far.
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wadinga
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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Hi All,

I'm not sure our current Prime Minister is in control of the UK let alone wanting to control Russia!

Access to the plentiful natural resources has been easy and straightforward, because the Russians have been perfectly happy to sell them to us since Glasnost. Equally, they have been very happy to take our foreign exchange for them. Nobody wants to invade Russia, it's always proven to be a very, very bad idea.

For European economies it has been convenient and cheap (but extremely dangerous) to become reliant on Russia for energy supplies. No wrangling at home with Green Parties or populace about oil and gas exploration and production or siting wind/solar farms or nuclear plants, just buy the final products from Russia and let them sort all that difficult/risky/expensive stuff out in their house. A bean counter's perfect solution. My career in the oil and gas business started just after the Arab countries cut off the world's supplies because they didn't like the West being friendly with the Israelis. Hence North Sea and Norwegian O&G and massive expansion in the Gulf of Mexico. Does any of this sound familiar? Sooner or later the bean counters take over again and the "lets offload all the risky, costly and difficult stuff onto somebody else" market-driven attitude becomes the norm and the prime requirement for governments to guarantee energy security for their people goes out the window. Until the next time excrement and aerofoil intersect.

This is not the place for climate debate. Energy strategy does care about the origins of the energy, but we shouldn't trash the planet to get it.

If anybody is after someone else's natural resources, it is Putin. Ukraine is the granary basket for a lot of the world and Sevastopol is the key to his insane plan to reanimate the corpse of the USSR as a world power.

There has been a UN authorised observation team OHCHR monitoring the uncivil war in Donbas etc over the last years before the invasion. Both sides are guilty of atrocities, but the toothless UN was unable to install a peace keeping force or adjudicate an agreed boundary. Russia, as a Security Council member would surely veto any such efforts, since it would be directly opposed to their interests.

PS Our latest PM just resigned whilst I was writing this! Coronavirus, Trump, Johnson and Putin, surely this is the Age of Ragnarök!

All the best

wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
Byron Angel
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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Maybe Zelensky might be willing to take over at 10 Downing and bring the noble spirit of Stefan Bandera to the UK.

B
paul.mercer
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Re: What is Putin up to?

Post by paul.mercer »

Hi Byron,
He couldn't be any worse than the previous occupant!
Byron Angel
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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paul.mercer wrote: Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:18 am Hi Byron,
He couldn't be any worse than the previous occupant!

Hi Paul,
My assessment of Zelensky is rather more harsh. He is a dangerous and unprincipled man, serving even more dangerous masters.

Truss was a convenient place-holder, who will probably be used as a convenient scapegoat for the cataclysmic financial crisis now looming over Great Britain. What I find amazing is how oblivious people seem to be with respect to what is going on in the world right now ..... financially, economically, politically, culturally, religiously ..... as if it is all merely a random confluence of unpleasant events. They need to wake up, and soon.

Interesting tidbit: the last time the British Pound Sterling was crashed ..... it was at the instigation of George Soros.

B
Byron Angel
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Re: What is Putin up to?

Post by Byron Angel »

For general interest -

Go to YouTube -
Search for video “Jeffrey Sachs and Scott Ritter: The Pathway to Peace”

Pay attention to Sachs’ credentials. Listen to what he has to say.

Byron
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wadinga
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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Hi All,

Scott Ritter, now he is out of jail, frequently writes for RT News
RT is a brand of TV-Novosti, an autonomous non-profit organization founded by the Russian state-owned news agency RIA Novost

Jeffrey Sachs' speculations, when challenged, have no supporting evidence.

Go to
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-us-hel ... -63295189

DW is a legitimate German news channel. Their map shows this US helicopter was
According to our measurements, the flight path of FFAB123 was nine or 30 kilometers (5 or 18 miles) respectively away from the localized gas leaks.
As it observes, flying a helicopter (transmitting ID codes to flight tracker) around is hardly a stealth operation. Better done by submarine, perhaps? It goes on to say:
The viral claim by a Russian think tank on Telegram that an American helicopter was responsible for the gas leaks is untenable and misleading. The helicopter did not get close to the locations of the gas leaks.
If you trust various third world news channels (run by who knows) you can find plenty of "confirmations" that the USA "did it". But then you would be as guilty of jumping to conclusions as Mr Sachs.

All the best

wadinga
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Byron Angel
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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“Fact-checking” Dr Sachs .....
Hilarious.
Steve Crandell
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Re: What is Putin up to?

Post by Steve Crandell »

wadinga,

I can't bring myself to be too involved in this discussion and I'm glad you are here to contribute some sanity. I'm just not really up to it these days.

Thank you.
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Dave Saxton
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Re: What is Putin up to?

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paul.mercer wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:45 am .....I think the world just wishes Putin was put back in his box, (either above or below ground) but I fear the only ones who could do would be his own people, his own military,.....
topple Putin before he goes too far.
Be careful what you wish for. Those who would replace him are likely far more dangerous and extreme.
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.
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